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Coupes & Convertibles Ferrari Ferrari-the Ultimate classic (Ferrari Lovefest Topic)
729 messages, Last post on Nov 01, 2008 at 8:45 AM
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Replying to: neal4218 (Sep 21, 2005 7:22 am) I own a 456m and a 355B, the 2 could not be more different. Both awesome in their own right but made for different purposes. 355B- outright balls-to-the-wall drop dead gorgeous loud(gota have a Tubi exhaust) V8 380bhp rev happy sports car that will send tingles down your spine everytime you take it out  .. IMO the nicest and best sounding modern ferrari of them all. With the 360 and now 430 ferrari have gone in a different direction with cars having more electroinc aids  while becoming bigger and heavier like every other modern car nowadays The 355 was the last incarnation of the old school cars starting with the Dino in the last 60's(progression being Dino, 308, 328, 348, 355). It is a classic. 456M- Different ball of wax completly. Was designed as a GT car for the family heading off to the proverbial ski house 5 hours away down the autobahn. Obviously much less in your face design wise and alot queiter both inside and out(again Tubi exhaust a must here IMO). Less rev happy than the 355 but much more torquier with a massive v12 440bhp up front grunt and in a straight line it will eat anything on the road including the 355. The 2+2 nature of this car makes it the family ferrari if you will. I have a booster in the back seat and I love taking my kids with me to share the experience. The 456's are heavily depreciated now and they are a terrific buy for your ferrari $$. Understated, classy and elegant, Pinnin Farina himself is on record as saying the 456 is one of his favorite designs and that is saying something! So it really depends what you are looking for....a weekend screamer for blasts in the backroads or more of a user friendly GT car that can carry more than 2 people. Whichever you choose you wont be dissapointed. Just make sure you do your due diligence and have a through PPI performed before you even think about buying anything. One more thing....do not be overly concerned about finding low mileage cars..these cars get better the more they are driven so dont be afraid of higher mileage cars, generally these are the ones that have been serviced and maintained well by previous owner. Good luck. |
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Thanks for this good information. I sensed the same differences. Would there be some unique service or maintenance issues with the 456? For example, some engine or cooling or transmission [I will only consider the gated manual box] that I need to be particularly aware of? Also, should one even consider a car that the service records are missing or unavailable for or one that never had any service performed at a licensed dealer? I have no experience with my local dealership {Ferrari of Washington], but dealers from other makes don't always have the most careful or skillful mechanics, so I am not sure what to expect with Ferrari on dealer servicing vs. local shop servicing. How skeptical should one be of a car that may have non-factory aftermarket parts installed? Someone earlier in this forum said, "there is Ferrari and then there is everything else". What is a reliable way to get a PPI for a car that may be several hundred miles away? By the way, is there something about the 456 that has caused it to have depreciated so heavily? And where would be some good places to start looking for one? Again thanks.
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Replying to: neal4218 (Sep 22, 2005 1:36 am) -Your welcome. Would there be some unique service or maintenance issues with the 456? -Unique, no not by ferrari standards. A major belt service will need to be performed every 5 years or 30k miles. Should cost approx $5-6k at a dealer and a little less at a good independent. After that its up to you. Personally I get all fluids changed once a year which I feel is a good idea. I would budget for annual maintenance of between $1-2k and that should cover most eventualities. For example, some engine or cooling or transmission [I will only consider the gated manual box] that I need to be particularly aware of? -Yes, manual 6 speed is the way to go , you will have to look for them as they can be harder to find than the auto which most 456's came with. The 456 engine and drivetrain is very robust, if you stick to the newer M models 1999-2003 you should be fine. One thing that all 456's have an issue with is poorly sealing front door windows, you will have to be aware of this and try and find a car that has had this issue resolved by PO. Its a very expensive fix ($8k) so let the PO pick up the tab on this one. Also, should one even consider a car that the service records are missing or unavailable -Nope, stay away. A very bad sign. Any well cared for care will have a good paper trail. or one that never had any service performed at a licensed dealer? -I wouldnt worry to much about a licensed dealer not doing it, there are many ex-dealer mechanics that went out on their own and are just as good if not better at servicing than the dealer. Just make sure that whoever did the work is known for dealing with ferraris. I have no experience with my local dealership {Ferrari of Washington} - I have heard good things about FOW so I would not worry about them. so I am not sure what to expect with Ferrari on dealer servicing vs. local shop servicing -FWIW, I use a local independent for routine stuff and the dealer in my area for the big service. How skeptical should one be of a car that may have non-factory aftermarket parts installed? -Well it depends, If there are after market parts under the hood, I would raise an eyebrow at that. If its some non-factory wheels or other easily fixed cosmetic that might be ok. Either way as a potential buyer I would make sure to ask that everything is returned to stock factory before I buy. If this causes the seller to balk walk away..end of story. Someone earlier in this forum said, "there is Ferrari and then there is everything else". -Very true What is a reliable way to get a PPI for a car that may be several hundred miles away? -visit the website ferrarichat.com, introduce yourself and ask for suggestions on a place for a PPI in that particular city. Its a great ferrari enthusiast website and you will get all the help you need there. Also use the search button and you will find alot of answers to your questions. We have all been where you are now and this website will really help you out. By the way, is there something about the 456 that has caused it to have depreciated so heavily? -Nope, its a 2+2 ferrari and thus in the ferrari pecking order less desirable than the 2 seater cars. Every 2+2 ferrari ever made has the same image/depreciation problem...the new 612 2+2 costing $250k+ will probably be selling for half that if not less in 3/4 years. Dont complain, because it allows the prudent buyer to pick up a great bargain for a relatively new car. As a guide typically ferraris tend to flaten out on the depreciation curve at about 60/65% off MSRP. After that you should see minimal depreciation. Although like any car these modern ferraris are not investments and dont try and convince your self otherwise. Its like the old saying if you have to ask you cant afford one....alot of truth there. Drive it often and sell it when you are ready to move on..it will be worth what's it worth then. And where would be some good places to start looking for one? -Start by asking this question on ferrarichat.com. Also I happen to know of a great 1999 456m that Ron Tonkin has for sale. Also go to www.ferrariusa.com and check out marketplace section. Its a great car and most of the M models are pretty bullet proof. Just make sure you do your homework on any car considered. |
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Replying to: enzo4re (Sep 22, 2005 5:48 am) A brother of a friend of mine will be selling his 360 coupe in 4+/- months when his 430 arrives. I semi-seriously considered it, but was discouraged by several dealers and ex-Ferrari owners I talked to. I was told by that putting more than 5,000 miles per year on a Ferrari will become very expensive, both in terms of maintenance and depreciation. It's a 2001 360 with 11,000 miles currently on the odometer. Asking price is in the $135k range. Instead, I ended up getting a new 2005 Porsche 911 S Cabriolet that I was encouraged to "drive it to your heart's content" by the dealer and other Porsche owners. In addition, it holds my daughters in the back seat, at least for now. It's still a third car for us, but I've managed 615 miles in the first week. The first service is due at 20,000 miles or 2 years and I suspect I'll hit the former before the latter. I am happy, as are my wife and girls. However, now another friend of mine who just sent his last kid off to college is interested in the 360. He has homes in the Baltimore and Pittsburgh areas and would plan on driving the Ferrari back and forth (500+ miles roundtrip) at least once a month, weather permitting. How much have you driven your 355 and do you share the view that 10,000 miles per year in a Ferrari 360 is impractical and/or imprudent? Any other comments or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. |
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Replying to: habitat1 (Sep 22, 2005 8:24 am) -Thanks for the compliment, but I am a long way from an expert on ferrari's. A brother of a friend of mine will be selling his 360 coupe in 4+/- months when his 430 arrives. I semi-seriously considered it, but was discouraged by several dealers and ex-Ferrari owners I talked to. I was told by that putting more than 5,000 miles per year on a Ferrari will become very expensive -not in maintenance it wont, this is not high mileage at all, these cars get better the more they are driven, like most mechanical appliances particularly internal combustion engines, problems due to atrophy and neglect will cause you many more problems than regular usage. Some of the best 355 and 360's out there are the ones with 20-30k miles on them, that have been enthusiast owned and well cared for. I bought my 355 with 20k miles on the clock and have had ZERO problems with it. both in terms of maintenance and depreciation. It's a 2001 360 with 11,000 miles currently on the odometer. Asking price is in the $135k range. -now thats a different matter. The price sounds right for the year and miles. Depreciation is just now starting to hit the 360's with the intro of the 430. There are a ton of 360's on the market right now and this will drive down the price steadily, not overnight but judging by the 355 depreciation cycle a 1999 360 with 20k(in 2009) miles will probably be worth around 75/80k in 2009. IMO After 10 years the cycle slows down to minimal depreciation. If depreciation is a worry or a factor then you might want to look at an older car like an early 355 that has leveled off. Instead, I ended up getting a new 2005 Porsche 911 S Cabriolet that I was encouraged to "drive it to your heart's content" by the dealer and other Porsche owners. -Well if the 996 porsche is anything to go by be prepared for a big hit when it comes time to sell it. Far too many porsches out there which kills the resale. And despite what Porsche AG tell us there IS a substitute... I have owned a Porsche and they are a great car but they have no soul anymore IMO. that went away after the 993 air cool cars went away. In addition, it holds my daughters in the back seat, at least for now. It's still a third car for us, but I've managed 615 miles in the first week. The first service is due at 20,000 miles or 2 years and I suspect I'll hit the former before the latter. I am happy, as are my wife and girls. -They are great cars for this type of daily driving, fast, very reliable, and dont draw too much attention..good and bad depending on mood. However, now another friend of mine who just sent his last kid off to college is interested in the 360. He has homes in the Baltimore and Pittsburgh areas and would plan on driving the Ferrari back and forth (500+ miles roundtrip) at least once a month, weather permitting. - Once a month!!! are you kidding me, thats nothing. The 360 is more than capable of putting higher mileage on it. Despite what people think these cars dont melt in the rain or fall apart after 10k miles...Ferrari has made great strides starting with the 355 in making their cars ALOT more reliable and user friendly than the bad old days in the 70's and 80's where all these horror stories about ferrari''s came from. How much have you driven your 355 -As my ferrari's are 3rd and 4th cars, I dont get to drive them as much as I would like, also with 2 toddlers at home time is at a premium! but I still manged to put 2000k miles on the 355 last year. Strictly weekend use. But I have no doubt the car would be fine with whatever mileage I threw at it. and do you share the view that 10,000 miles per year in a Ferrari 360 is impractical and/or imprudent? -Well if you live where there is a real winter like I do, 10k miles per year is quite hard to do. For me my cars are more weekend toys than daily transportation. Sure the 355/360 are capable of being used daily but for me there is something special about looking forward to the weekends and the anticipation of firing up this magical vehicles. I still get tingles and butterflies when I start them up and hear that beautiful engine roar to life. This is something I never want to loose and I fear using them as daily drivers might diminish the enjoyment if you know what I mean. But thats just me, I know of people that use them alot more regularly but personally the stare's and unwanted attention can get old pretty quickly. I would not want to deal with that on a daily basis. So I guess I am saying a ferrari probably is impracticle for daily driver duties but there is no better weekend or occasional use toy you can reward yourself with. Any other comments or suggestions would be appreciated. -Hope this helps.
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Again, "Enzo", many thanks. I went to the Ron Tonkin website, and tried putting 456M in a search but it came up nil. I then put in 456GT and a very nice blue 1999 one came up for $134,900! Just to clarify, this probably in fact has to be an "M' because I believe all 456's from 1999 on were "modificata", would you agree? In any event, that seems an excessive price, don't you think -- at least by the expected depreciation curve? Also, Tonkin is in Oregon and I am in DC. What do you think of having it trucked across the country from the standpoint of : 1) possible damage; 2) cost; 3) practicality of doing this vs. finding one on the East coast? Any thoughts?
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Replying to: enzo4re (Sep 22, 2005 9:31 am) Sure did, and it's good hearing from someone with first hand experience like yours. Congrats on the toddlers, as well. My kids were probably the biggest factor in my decision to go for the 911 Cab. And, although I've heard the "no soul" pitch from others that were partial to the pre-996 air cooled 911's, I am of a different opinion/preference. I had a fair amount of time behind the wheel of a 1987 930 Turbo and, while it was a lot of fun back then, it was a lot of work to drive. If I wanted to limit my use to 2,000+/- miles a year on the weekends, it - or better yet - a used 328, 355 or 360 - would probably be a better choice than paying full price for a new 997. But I would not bet against my putting 10,000 to 15,000 miles a year on the 997. And if my girls have anything to say about it, they will be in the back seat for more than 2000 miles a year! Again, thanks for your insights and congratulations on two great cars and two greater joys than any car. |
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Replying to: neal4218 (Sep 22, 2005 1:03 pm) Yes, Its an M car. any event, that seems an excessive price, don't you think -- at least by the expected depreciation curve? Yes, thats a carzy price for a 99 and why it has been for sale for a long time..I am not sure what they are smoking but dealers are not known for their rational pricing of used ferraris! , although it looks perfect with very low miles. Its maybe $100k car but not a penny more IMO. $135k should buy you a perfect 2001/2002 car as a reference. This is one of the reasons why I like to buy my cars from other enthusiasts because some dealer's will gouge you sensless if you dont know what you are doing. The other main reason is I like to know FULL history of the car and whom I am buying it from. Most times a dealer will not accommodate these type of requests. Tonkin is in Oregon and I am in DC. What do you think of having it trucked across the country from the standpoint of : 1) possible damage; 2) cost; 3) practicality of doing this vs. finding one on the East coast? Any thoughts? My 355 came from the mid west and my 456 from CA and I am in the NY area. Its not a big deal. There are transportaion companies that specialize in shipping high end cars www.intercitylines.com will take care of any car you need transported. But the best way is to pick the car up yourself and drive it home wherever it is. You will have yourself one hell of a roadtrip! Because there are so few of these cars, the chances of you finding one and one that you WANT close to you is slim, you have to spread your search to cover the entire US. BTW Cauley Ferarri have a nice blue 2001 456m on their website. |
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That price of over 130 seems way out of line. the only justification seems to be the low miles, but that becomes a catch 22. Recently a 328 sold around here for well into 70K because it only had 1200 original miles. Of course, it immediately lost that distinction while being driven home! Don't be afraid of higher mileage cars with EXCELLENT service records. Habitat 1, where in the Northeast are you? I might be able to help find a car through one of the Ferrari Club of America events. BTW, I strongly recommend joining the FCA, along with Fchat, they are a must for owners, and potential owners. There is a wealth of information available in those two sources. As to putting miles on, I put around 7K per year during our short driving season and both my mechanic and I think the car benefits from it. No more maintenance than you would expect from a 17 year old car. |
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