Last post on Jan 17, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars
#1537 of 1804 Novice questions
Dec 12, 2005 (12:00 pm)
Made my first visit to a Honda dealer in 20 years. Saw a non-hybrid Civic and was impressed with several features : lots of airbags, nice styling inside and out. Went there to see the HCH but none on the lot.
1. how much room does the battery pack take up in the trunk ? The non-hybrid is modest in size, so I am a bit concerned that the battery will take too much space.
2. the battery in trunk prevents the use of fold down rear seats ? Yes ?
3. can anyone comment on the comfort of the HCH against the Prius ? I am on a list for a Prius, but after driving a 2005 as a loaner from the dealer, I found the seats to be quite hard on my butt and back. My test drive with the Civic was too short to determine if it is any better.
4. why have you chosen an HCH over the Prius ?
5. my commute consists of 31 miles highway and 8 miles local. Can anyone hazard a guess as to the mpg that I might achieve in real life ? I tend not to go over 68 mph on the highway ; I do not do jack rabbit starts and I coast to red lights whenever it is safe to do so. I currently get 29 mpg from my 1999 4 cylinder Camry.
6. I have read that the tax credit for a Prius may be as high as $3,100 starting in 2006. Any idea what the credit may be for an HCH ?
#1538 of 1804 Re: Novice questions [jaym2]
Dec 12, 2005 (12:17 pm)
As an owner of a 2004 HCH, I will respond with my opinions and some facts:
1. The trunk is adequate for a 5 passenger car into which most people rarely ever put 5 passengers. I have used the car for three long road trips of about 2500 miles for myself and my two kids, including one trip in which the trunk and the passenger seats were PACKED with Christmas presents and clothing and other gear, and we got 56.0 MPG for the first 447 miles of the trip, driving 65-75 on the hwy.
2. Yes, the battery prevents fold down split rear seat. As a driver for 28 years, I have used that feature one time in a car, and another time when I had my HCH and I needed the split seat, I was able to place my cargo across the front passenger seat angled into the rear seat and sticking about two feet out of the front passenger window. So you can work around this lack of feature.
3. Have not driven a Prius long enough to know the seat comfort, sorry.
4. I chose the HCH because I got mine used for $19,324 and the Priuses were either more expensive than that or unavailable.
5. I suppose you can get 42-48 MPG in a commute like that, and depending on the traffic and weather and depending on how much effort you want to put into "re-learning" how to drive more efficiently, you might get even higher than that.
6. I think I have read where the 2006 tax credit for the HCH will be in the range of $2000-$2100. More info here: http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=53966&cat=Dealers
Hope this helps you.......
#1539 of 1804 tax credit / prius
Dec 13, 2005 (6:32 am)
1. would you buy the HCH again or would you consider the Prius. Why ?
2. For the first time, in 2004, I was subject to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). The Federal AMT was designed years ago to ensure that millionaires paid at least some taxes. Over the years, since the threshold was never adjusted, middle class families with a decent income are now subject to the tax. This means that a lot of my itemized deductions / credits have no affect on what we will owe.
I have a call into my accountant to see whether or not I will benefit from the Energy Tax Credit of $2,100. I may not. If not, I then have to consider the cost benefit of paying $3,000 more for a hybrid.
#1540 of 1804 Answers......
Dec 13, 2005 (7:31 am)
1. I would buy my HCH again in a HEARTBEAT !! My lifetime MPG is about 48.5, and I have spent only $900 in fuel in 17 months. A Prius might have been slightly better on fuel since my commute is entirely city driving, but I could not have purchased a Prius for $19,324, either !!
2. I'm pretty sure your accountant will tell you that no matter WHAT your tax situation, the 2006 tax credit for Hybrids will come right off the bottom and will have the same effect on you as someone in the 37% tax bracket.
Good Luck !!
#1541 of 1804 Re: Novice questions [jaym2]
Dec 13, 2005 (9:23 am)
1. Battery pack is now smaller than 2005 model and continues to sit against the back seat space. The rest of the trunk size isnít be affected.
2. Yes, you cannot fold the rear seat back rest down
5. You driving style/commute suggests that you could get pretty close to EPA estimate, in the upper 40s. My basis for saying so is from autosite review of 2006 Civic Hybrid, averaging 47.1 mpg where the stretch included 2-lane highway, city roads and 80 mph stint down a freeway.
And if you liked the interior of the non-hybrid Civic, you should find the Civic Hybrid even better since it has additional touches to it.
#1542 of 1804 got my Decal for Carpool Lane
Dec 13, 2005 (11:10 am)
I finally received CA Carpool Lane Decal. I love it!
#1543 of 1804 The Numbers Game
Dec 14, 2005 (12:02 am)
In reply to JBAUMGART,
Electric Motor comparison - specs from Edmunds:
------------- Prius -------------------- Civic
HP --- 67 hp 1200 rpm ------------ 20 hp 1380 rpm (2000?)
Torque --- 295 ft-lbs. 0 rpm ----- 76 ft-lbs. 0 rpm
Output --- 50 KW -------------------- 15 KW
It should be noted that the 295lbs-ft of Prius' MG2 gets to the wheels via a fixed 4:1 ratio.
The CIVIC's 76 lbs-ft by a crankshaft mounted MG goes to the wheels through a conventional gearbox (in 1st gear) with an overall ratio of around 12:1 thus magnifying its effective torque to 3 x 76 or 228lbs-ft in comparison !
Under aggressive driving :
The Prius will maintain its torque to 1200rpm 20 mph
Its engine will produce 90% of its rated power 40 mph
The CIVIC will maintain its torque to 1380rpm 8mph
Its engine will produce 100% of its rated power 40mph in 1st gear. Changing gear will drop the engine back down the power curve. That's why Honda introduced a CVT for its model to remain competitive.
For a CIVIC equipped with one, a mechanical CVT (which is now all Civics from MY '06 onwards) will attempt to maintain the engine at its peak revs as the vehicle continues to accelerate.
As will the Prius with its electrical CVT.
When you examine over the 0-40mph range, these two systems don't appear to be that far apart. The torque decay on the Honda IMA beyond 8mph is quickly overshadowed by the superior power of the Honda engine. What doesn't show up in these figures is the fact that the Prius is able to use battery power over the full speed range because of its 500v upconverter.
Something else that doesn't show up is how IMA assist drops off rapidly above 2500rpm. Even so, I expect the initial launch of the vehicle away from rest to be somewhat noticeable. I have driven the Prius but not the HCH at this time.
The fuel saving advantage I like is that both CVT's will allow their engines to slow down when peak torque is not required giving the driver automatic overdrive. I know I sometimes find myself in fourth when I should have been in fifth.
For this comparison post I garnered some information over on the Yahoo group "Prius Technical_Stuff" MSG 6327
#1545 of 1804 Re: The Numbers Game [toyolla2]
Dec 14, 2005 (7:58 pm)
toyolla2, that is very good information - thanks for taking the time to share.
Moving beyond the technical data and gas mileage, I would be very interested in learning more about the true performance of these two vehicles. One major downside for me with either one would be how slow they seem to be, compared to other choices out there that cost the same or less. I do admire Honda for giving buyers 3 distinct choices, depending on one's priorities: regular Civics (both sedan and coupe), the Hybrid and the Si. To my eyes at least they ALL look better than the Prius. So far I haven't made up my own mind about what my priorities are. Heart says Si, mind says Hybrid and the practical side of me says the regular sedan.
#1546 of 1804 2006 HCH SERVICE INTERVALS
Dec 15, 2005 (8:45 pm)
The owner's manual for the 2006 HCH makes no recommendation for specific mileage figures to change the oil, filter and other maintenance items. It recommends going by the Engine Oil Life Display as well as the Maintenance Minder, it suggests an oil change at between 6 and 15 percent as shown on he EOLD.
I have about 5300 miles on my car and the EOLD shows 50%, at that rate the oil should be changed at about 9850 miles.
I'm interested in hearing from other 2006 HCH owners if their EOLD numbers are fairly close to mine, also has anyone gotten the symbol "B" on their Maintenance Minder and at what mileage.