Last post on Apr 19, 2013 at 9:03 AM
You are in the Buick Park Avenue
What is this discussion about?
Buick Park Avenue
#451 of 460 Diagnosing Cruise Control Problem
Apr 09, 2013 (12:15 am)
Okay Gents - it looks like you've created an OCD Park Avenue problem solving crazy man.
Before the IM problem the cruise was not working but I wasn't really going to do anything about it. I just figured that I probably wasn't going to be able to fix it myself and I didn't want to spend Dealer $$ to have it repaired. But, with my new found sense of capability and some very excellent folks here to bounce ideas off of I thought I might give it a go.
Stats: 1998 Buick Park Ave - 88,000 Miles - 2nd owner - Intake Manifold just replaced and everything looking good
The cruise does not work at all. I move the slider button to the on position - get up to speed and depress the set button. No cruise light. I did verify that the green Cruise light does work during engine start-up. I've also tried to hold the brake pedal up as some have said has help them engage their cruise - no deal.
Here's what I've done so far to diagnose:
- Checked Cruise fuse in the passenger side instrument panel fuse block. It looked fine but I replaced it with a new 10 amp just to make sure.
- Visually checked the two switches at the base of the steering column - in my car both switch plungers are compressed with no brake pedal applied - when the brake is applied the brake arm moves away from the switches allowing the plungers to extend - the gaps seem like the 1/8 - 1/4 described in an online manual I have access to.
- Verified that the cruise control cable was connected correctly from the cruise control module mounted on the firewall and running to the throttle body. Everything looked fine there - I did find a procedure for ensuring it was correctly tightened. I will do that tomorrow. I don't think that would be a reason for the cruise not to engage at all.
- Made an assumption that the VSS is working okay since I have no problems with my speedometer.
- Checked all brake lights for proper function - found two burnt out lights - one in the upper middle light and one in the lower driver side. Replaced both lights with the correct lights and retried the cruise and still did not work.
- Removed the cruise control module and attempted to look inside the box but once I had removed the 4 screws that held it closed I could not get it to open - maybe a trick there but perhaps GM made it so it really couldn't be opened without really messing it up. Although I did see one online in a video that a guy made to test his module. So I reassembled and reinstalled the module.
- QUESTION - on narrowing down what is the offending component. I personally think that it is probably the light/wiper/cruise switch. I thought a way to prove that is that if it was working and I unplugged the plug from the cruise control module and then turned the switch to on and then hit the set button would that not cause a DTC error code? Which it does not?
Well - that's what I have so far - any helpful diagnosis replies are most welcome. I am going to take it step by step without just throwing parts at it. By the way - from all the doco on my car I don't think I have any vacuum components - it looks like my cruise control module works on an electric stepper motor.
#452 of 460 Re: Diagnosing Cruise Control Problem [spriteman]
Apr 09, 2013 (6:28 am)
You are probably ready to check the circuits through the multifunction stalk.
You will need a circuit diagram to know which circuits are involved when you push the on and the set and the resume. I suggested a visit to your library computers it they offer AllData like mine does. I can print out or save pictures and text to a USB memory stick from their computer. Our county library pays per computer for AllData so it's only available at computers at the branches or main library (or the other county with which we share resources. It's worth a call to ask them if there is access and if you can access and save data to use at home.
I am looking at my 98 leSabre's arrangement for the cruise, but can't be sure the PA would use the same setup. It's likely but not certain. There are 3 fuses involved. The colors might help, but can't be certain those would be same as well. Only clue would be if the rockauto listing showed the cars took the same replacement turn signal stalk.
The two brake switches are opposites; one is open when pedal is depressed and other is closed when pedal is depressed. Your fuses probably have a block under the rear seat along with under the hood, like my leSabre. One fuse is Auto AC Cruise and other is CLG FAN/TCC with this one supplying brake switch which is closed with the pedal up. The other fuse supplies power for the other brake switch which only is closed upon brake application and tells the cruise module that it has brake applied.
#454 of 460 Re: Diagnosing Cruise Control Problem [spriteman]
Apr 09, 2013 (2:31 pm)
That requires a password and ID>
#455 of 460 Re: Diagnosing Cruise Control Problem [spriteman]
Apr 10, 2013 (9:15 pm)
Does the EBSCO database have the diagnostic steps in addition to the diagrams?
My manual gives 9 steps to verify it is in fact inop, then shows about 31 more items to narrow it down.
After making sure it's inop, it says
1) turn CC (cruise control) off
2) disconnect cc module connector
3) turn ign switch to run position
4) connect DMM between terminal F of connector and ground and look for 10-15VDC
thats the second item of 31. 1st item was perform the first 9 steps of basic system check. Lots more to check out. Some of it is complicated or requires specialty tools to check out the PCM, scan tools to look for errors. It may take a while to chase it down.
Unfortunately I don't have experience with that particular problem, so I can't give you a "this is what I found to be the root cause..."
Do you happen to have any dash lights indicating problems with, for instance, your ABS or traction control system? Service engine soon/check engine light?
#456 of 460 Re: Diagnosing Cruise Control Problem [bowfan]
Apr 10, 2013 (10:04 pm)
Thanks for jumping in bowfan.
The EBSCO data does give some steps but they are fairly light on detail when it gets down into the weeds. They are definitely not shop manuals.
Is your manual hard copy or electronic - if electronic is there a way to screen shot and post or send via email?
I have already checked terminals a-g for voltage - all received good results.
There are no dash lights - I was sort of hoping there would have been as that would help narrow down what I'm looking for. Two of these terminals also rule out the stop lamp & ABS switch failure I believe.
Any thoughts on a way to test the cruise control module in a stand-alone
Let me know what you think?
#457 of 460 Re: Diagnosing Cruise Control Problem [spriteman]
Apr 11, 2013 (5:18 am)
>Is your manual hard copy or electronic - if electronic is there a way to screen shot and post or send via email?
That might be an advantage to seeing if your local library does have AllData access. From what I recall the few times I used AllData at the library, their troubleshooting steps seemed to parallel the factory service manuals from GM printer by Helminc.com
You might price the FSM at that website ($200 + shipping). They offer paper and digital versions for some cars--but the digital versions cover many vehicles and are even more expensive unless you're a shop needing to cover that many vehicles.
I'd suggest looking on eBay for used FSM manuals. One caveat is to be sure you know how many volumes are in the set, e.g., 2 or 3. A few people put up one volume and you need all the parts. My 2003 FSM is 3 volumes. AND it needs to be the actual Helm FSM.
Here is one. Appears to be the full correct set. Priced extraordinarily well. If I wanted them I'd Buy It Now for $27.99 and pay extra for fast shipping. Others are asking 2.5 times that price.
Only note, is on the 1998 leSabre manuals, Helm issued a replacement set with ID to that effect stamped diagonally across the covers. They appeared on my doorstep with notice a year or two after I bought the originals from Helm.
It said there had been some updates inside--I never saw anything different.
It makes good reading about how things work as well as troubleshooting.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-1998-BUICK-PARK-AVENUE-Service-Manual-VOL-1-2-3-ELEC- - - TRICAL-ENGINE-BRAKE-/350583208811?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item51a0633b- - - 6b&vxp=mtr#ht_1443wt_676
Greasy fingerprints won't affect the inside. I have some old manuals for 67 Mustang and 77 Cutlass with lots of prints...
#458 of 460 After Action Report - IM Replacement Follow-up
Apr 18, 2013 (7:33 pm)
So - it's been about a month since I replaced my IM gaskets and cleaned the heck out of that engine. I had strained the oil that was in the engine when the gaskets failed and changed the oil filter. The idea being that in a month I would change both.
Put the Mobil 1 extended mileage 10w-30 synthetic and the matching filter from Mobil.
Also, installed a new fuel filter so all of those clean injectors have nice clean gas. Anyone have an issue with the clip side of the fuel filter weeping a little around the connection? It's not a lot of gas - just enough to make the plastic clip wet.
And, lastly, changed out the oil pressure sender that had failed before the IM gasket failure. By the way - if anyone else is going to attempt this I wound up jacking the car up and working from the right front wheel area. I removed the wheel and the splash guard. This enables you to reach to oil pressure sender from the side and get a wrench on it. I suggest using a 28 mm (check size) box end ratchet wrench to make to job a lot easier.
Oil pressure on my base 1998 BPA is now a solid 60 psi while cruising or accelerating. When I hit the brakes fairly hard you can see the psi drop into the low to mid 30's. All looks normal and I think I should have another 100K miles out of the old BPA.
#459 of 460 Re: After Action Report - IM Replacement Follow-up [spriteman]
Apr 19, 2013 (5:43 am)
>Anyone have an issue with the clip side of the fuel filter weeping a little around the connection?
Was the o-ring in place on the line when you put on the new filter? I still haven't done mine--have to get a 16 mm flare wrench--but the person at the Zone reminded me to watch that o-ring. If it is left off, then I'd have a leak he told me.
#460 of 460 Re: After Action Report - IM Replacement Follow-up [imidazol97]
Apr 19, 2013 (9:03 am)
To be honest I didn't notice if there was an o-ring. I did a look-up at gmpartsgiant for the parts diagram - it does show an o-ring on the hex fitting side but not on the clip side of the fuel filter. Is the o-ring inside the hex fitting? I didn't see the o-ring on the flared end of the fuel line coming from the engine side which connects to the hex fitting.
The strange thing is that it seems to be weeping from the clip side of the fuel filter - where the diagram does not show an o-ring. I'm going to go down to autozone and see if they can lend a hand identifying where the o-ring should be and why the clip side of the fuel filter might be leaking.