Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response - READ ONLY

877 messages, Last post on May 09, 2002 at 5:24 AM

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#846 of 877 by barbz May 03, 2002 (10:55 am)
Thanks Cliffy, when can I get one for my 2001?
#847 of 877 by innovations May 03, 2002 (11:13 am)
Probably a good question for TMUSA. tmusa, when will the part be available for the 2001 models? Even if it's not going to be available as a TSB fix, I'd be willing to pay for it if necessary. Does Toyota plan on making it available?
#848 of 877 Question for Bob -- by duckshooter May 03, 2002 (11:40 am)
The viscosity change - how would we know it's not a dramatic change (from one event or several closely spaced events) or a gradual change? Can oil vis change quickly, or must it necessarily be a gradual process? Reason I ask is what is the likelihood that, say, two weeks prior the analysis did not show vis degradation? Does it necessarily degrade gracefully - in a predictable, straight line? Or is it possible that some externality would cause vis to suddenly degrade - then stay where it is for another 10K miles - and then degrade again? Consider an example - you get your oil changed in the winter, then do a bunch of short trips in freezing cold (which Toyota says is hard on your oil)... presumably reducing the viscosity. But then it warms up - and coincidentally your driving habits change as well. So your vis suffered initially and degraded, but then you took a long road trip down south and racked up 1500 miles on the highway - which didn't change viscosity further. See where this is going? What I'm trying to work in here is driving habits and your take on the effect on oil. Jeff
#849 of 877 Long term effects by stealth1969 May 03, 2002 (1:09 pm)
As some of you may remember, I had sludge in my Seinna a couple of years ago. The procedure Bob discribed was not the procedure used on my engine. They only cleaned the sludge on the accessable areas under the valve covers and oil pan. About 50k miles after my sludge was cleaned my engine started leaking oil. It was the camshaft oil seal. To make a long story shorter, the end camshaft bearing is scored and has to be replaced. Toyota does not use seperate camshaft bearings so you have to replace the head and camshaft. For the person who asked before, the list price for a head for a 98 Seinna is $794, bare. The camshafts are $202. The dealer could (would) not tell me the cause. I used Mobile 1 and changed oil around 5k miles withing 500. There is small amounts of sludge in the head, mainly in the places where the oil has no place to drain, but there is some black like coke on the inside of the head near the bearing that failed. The dealer wanted $2500 to fix. Now I will probably never know, but was this a result of the sludge I had before or a different problem. So if this happens to somebodyelse who has had sludge, how would it be determined if it was sludge related or not? Would it be covered under the 8yr special policy, how would you know?
#850 of 877 by Mr_Shiftright HOST May 03, 2002 (1:17 pm)
I would think that if you had any damage from sludge this would have shown up a lot sooner than 50,000 miles later, especially since you don't have lots of sludge now. It's hard to know if this cam bearing failure might have just been a manufacturing defect from the get-go. Without huge amounts of sludge currently, or evidence of oil starvation throughout the engine, I don't know how you could ever prove a sludge-related incident. I suppose you could closely inspect the oil galleys that feed the cam bearings and see what's up there.
#851 of 877 Signing Off for Now by tmsusa1 May 03, 2002 (2:17 pm)
Five weeks ago Toyota Motor Sales USA started this forum to provide an alternate venue for dialog with our customers. We also felt it was important for Toyota to use every available means to communicate the facts about our expanded Customer Support Program (CSP) for engine oil gel -- sludge. Toyota's first communications regarding the original Special Policy Adjustment (SPA) really missed the mark. Some felt we passed blame to Toyota owners for their sludge problems, and we regret causing any of our customers undo hurt for that perception. Also, we saw many competing theories--many obviously well thought out-- about the causes of sludge, what constitutes proper maintenance and the virtues or risk of different oil formulations. We felt compelled to address those to the best of our ability and extend appreciation to the "sludge theorists" out there as well as our own TMS USA technical staff for their contributions. It now appears to me that we've addressed all of the relevant issues surrounding the sludge problem as well as our important customer assistance plan for affected owners-- at least those queries and comments that can be reasonably addressed in a public forum such as this. Today, in addition to the ongoing CSP, we have many individuals at the dealership, regional and corporate levels (including special Executive Team Priority associates) working one-on-one with the handful of customers who still have problems or concerns or for whom--or whatever reason--were not originally handled in the manner in which they deserve. As everyone hopefully knows by now, we've set up special sludge hot lines for this very purpose: Toyota Engine Gel Customer Assistance 1-888-654-6421 Lexus Engine Gel Customer Assistance 1- 888-802-9436 And a special email address (corpcommstoyota.com) which will remain active indefinitely. The people staffing these lines are fully versed in all the details of our Customer Assistance Program and have the means and every intention of bringing individual matters to a satisfactory conclusion. While we are ending our active involvement with this forum, we most certainly are not abandoning our customers. In fact, this forum has probably actually helped us to recognize some faults in our customer response system. We've now addressed those, and I truly believe Toyota will be showing an even higher level of customer concern because of this experience. Should Mr. Shiftright and Edmunds decide to close this forum we have requested that it be archived to preserve the FAQs for the future reference of Toyota and Lexus customers. Thanks to everyone who took the time to offer thoughtful observations and constructive criticism. Please be assured that we are using this valuable information to enact improvements in our customer handling processes from the dealership level on up. Our ultimate goal is to achieve a satisfactory resolution with each customer--a mutual understanding that includes an apology and--we hope-- restoration of confidence in Toyota.
#852 of 877 Thank you by barbz May 03, 2002 (4:14 pm)
Thank you for answering some questions but I think the most important questions are unanswered. Like why does a maintained car still get sludge and why should we change our oil every 2,500 to 3,000 miles when the book says 5,000 to 7,500 miles. Answers to those questions would help restore my confidence. thank you
#853 of 877 In parting, my 2 cents worth by jethrog35 May 03, 2002 (7:00 pm)
In spite of this recent debacle, the world would be a much better place if everyone made cars to the standard that Toyota/Lexus does. I tip my hat to Toyota.
#854 of 877 Stealth1969 by stl66 May 03, 2002 (8:13 pm)
How many miles were on your Sienna when you first had the sludge problem? What kind of maintenance did you do?
#855 of 877 I still would like to know why I had to sign a release? by catgem May 03, 2002 (9:05 pm)
I will call and try to find out.....it just seems weird, in light of the new policy, which covers everyone....