Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response - READ ONLY

877 messages, Last post on May 09, 2002 at 5:24 AM

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#838 of 877 jj35 by cliffy1 May 03, 2002 (7:01 am)
I guess you are correct about that. Defining a word like "abuse" is like defining the word "love". It means different things to different people. You are also correct that some dealers have not been very good at handling customers in all of this. Combine that with people who would lie about their service history and there probably isn't a way to answer my question.
#839 of 877 thanks for feedback by pdalpsher May 03, 2002 (7:47 am)
on my oil analysis. I'm a lot more comfortable knowing what is going on so I can adjust my maintenance practices accordingly. I'll also put myself on a 2500 mile interval until I see improvement. The 2500 will work well with the 5k intervals in the manual...I'll just double up on the oil changes. I'll also get the air filter replaced at my next change. I'd also be interested in TMS's comments...particularly if an engineer helps analyze the test results from their perspective. I'm not hard on my vehicle and I really don't consider my driving to be 'severe' during the time this oil was running in my car. This summer the weather puts me into severe (90+ temps and humidity) so I stay on a frequent change schedule year-round. For me it looks like 5k would be too long on this brand of oil.
#840 of 877 Oil analysis by joedbob May 03, 2002 (8:12 am)
Can someone please tell me where to go to get an oil analysis? What kind of business? And when is the best time to get one, i.e. how many miles on current oil? Thank you.
#841 of 877 by Mr_Shiftright HOST May 03, 2002 (8:22 am)
Very interesting, thanks for the new info on the oil analysis everyone. This talk of oil quality and characteristics has encouraged me to present a possibly new way of looking at this entire problem. Please follow along and comment: 1. A recent survey reported in USA asked Americans about things that were "extremely important" to them, such as doctor visits, etc. It asked them to rate the relative importance of certain things in their lives. 2. Fully 65% of these Americans said that 3,000 mile oil changes were "extremely important" (you can see where I'm going with this?) 3. Okay, so let's presume then that of the 3,000 people who complained about sludge, that 65% changed their oil at 3,000 miles and still got sludge. 4. So now we have 2,000 innocent victims. Okay, so 2,000 cars SOMEHOW got sludge in spite of frequent oil changes. This means there were other factors. Let's look at them: 5. OTHER FACTORS of major consequence would include: a. Grade and quality of oil (thank you bob) b. Engine design itself c. Driving conditions, type of use d. Climate 6. So, 2,000 people, or 1 in 1500, have apparently gotten sludge due to one or more (probably more than one) of these factors. 7. NOW MY POINT---which of these can be corrected? 8. ANSWER -- quality of the oil and the engine design. CONCLUSION -- If you change the oil regularly, and actually investigate the quality of the oil going in your engine, and if Toyota does some design to the PCV system (which it is doing), then you probably have this problem licked forever. I am presuming that climate and driving conditions cannot be easily changed and, by themselves, will not cause this problem. If climate and driving conditions were the sole cause, it seems obvious to me we'd be seeing a massive number of sludge cases. Okay, end of my sermon, thanks for patiently reading it.
#842 of 877 Change oil and Quality May be Full Answer by armtdm May 03, 2002 (8:43 am)
As the oil analysis showed at 2400 miles the oil was FRIED on that engine. Not a design flaw but "because of the design" the oil has to be changed more frequently as it is beat up pretty bad by the engine. Hosts' solution is to change more often. Newer oils (SL and future classifications) coming out are more interested in potential damage to cats, emission issues and mpg. There appears is no concern of wear or durability of engines. Auto manufacturers forced by gov to go this route and API which certifies the oil is forced to go this route as the auto companies and oil industry control and fund API. The consumer has no voice in this, We will be fed inferior wear protective oils in the future and will be forced to use them as they are mandated in the owner's manual as USE API CERTIFIED OIL. To keep the engine humming we will also have to change frequently as the oils just can't do the job of predecessors classifications like SG and SH. In fact, it appears that for long term durability you will either need to change your oil very frequently (against the total trend in auto maintenance for all other components) or use a non API certified oil. Seems to me the use of non API oils will be a major thrust for consumers and oil refiners if they can get the word out that non API oils protect better in the long run. Thus, the RedLines, Amsoils, Max Lifes of the world will capture a major market share. API will lose its influence over oil consuming industry. In fact, go to a auto parts store, 99% of the customers have no concept of what the API logo means now. They are strictly buying on price, but, in the past basically no non API oils were on the shelf, now we have 25%-50% of the oil I have seen as not being API certified based upon a recent visit. A good marketing campaign could have more owners moving to non API oils. This may be the only way measure oil quality in the future, along with analysis.
#843 of 877 by barbz May 03, 2002 (9:35 am)
When will the new part be available from Toyota?
#844 of 877 barbz by cliffy1 May 03, 2002 (9:42 am)
It already is. It has been on the engines since mid-March.
#845 of 877 by innovations May 03, 2002 (9:52 am)
What about cars purchased before mid-March?
#846 of 877 by barbz May 03, 2002 (10:55 am)
Thanks Cliffy, when can I get one for my 2001?
#847 of 877 by innovations May 03, 2002 (11:13 am)
Probably a good question for TMUSA. tmusa, when will the part be available for the 2001 models? Even if it's not going to be available as a TSB fix, I'd be willing to pay for it if necessary. Does Toyota plan on making it available?