Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response - READ ONLY

877 messages, Last post on May 09, 2002 at 5:24 AM

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#821 of 877 one word by wammerjammer May 02, 2002 (2:22 pm)
warranty. I see many people use it on this board. I don't see it in the "policy". Can the people from Toyota please explain.
#822 of 877 Another Reason for Sludge. by mrdetailer May 02, 2002 (3:03 pm)
See the full discussion on http://auto-rx.com/bmw_sludge_letter.htm I won't paste it since it contains some marketing information. But I found one statement interesting. Pardon the run on sentence "I find most top of the range Jap/German cars have a very fine mesh over the oil pick up pipe in the sump, in comparison to some lower quality 4 cylinder cars, the oil strainer mesh is of a wider gauge, I find these cars will deal with the sludge over a longer period, and when the top range cars start up cold ,the sludge is sucked in to the pick up and blocks the strainer eventually causing cams to run hot and resulting in premature wear of all major bearings as I'm sure you know this already ..." There are other interesting comments about sludge there also.
#823 of 877 jj35 on public reactions by deg856 May 02, 2002 (4:26 pm)
People who choose to post in this public forum are addressing the public in general, just as you have been doing. You have the right to remain angry and resentful for as long as you want, and others have the rights to voice their opinions publicly that such an attitude is not helpful in problem resolution. A lot of us have lost a lot of money and opportunities during the stock market down turn. That knowledge eats at us every time we think about it, but the smart ones put monetary and property losses behind them quickly. When I think about all the true suffering and tragedies all around us, here and abroad, I just can't identify with someone who wants to dedicate his/her life to "fight the sludge" due to "lack of respect". San Jose, CA
#825 of 877 my problem by jj35 May 02, 2002 (4:48 pm)
I could walk away mad and never have anything to do with Toyota again and despise my Sienna until I sell it. Or I could come to public forums to discuss my problem with people with technical expertise, try to figure out what is wrong with the vehicle, and go from there. I still don't know what is wrong. I am still trying to figure it out. No one has given me convincing and compelling evidence that I can change my oil every 3k miles and never have sludge again. I don't think anything was "fixed" on my engine, so whatever caused it to sludge is still there. Regarding your post, MrDetailer, I live in Florida where I do not have the problems with cold weather. Also my sludge was at one year, 17,000 miles. Your post may address some of the sludge problems, but not all. But thanks for the info. letsrock - I didn't get it either.
#826 of 877 by Mr_Shiftright HOST May 02, 2002 (6:08 pm)
telitlikeitis -- no purposeless Toyota bashing is allowed here. Your post has been removed. Please contribute something more constructive to the forum or stand by and read. thank you. jj35--please don't respond to trolls and troublemakers. RE: your comment: "No one has given me convincing and compelling evidence that I can change my oil every 3k miles and never have sludge again." What I'm hearing from some members of the forum is that you have in fact been given convincing and compelling evidence by both Toyota and other technical people but you just won't accept it. Toyota believes that you will never, ever have sludge again if you follow the oil drain recommendations and they are willing to back up their belief for 8 years and unlimited miles. They've even come here to tell you this, and to contact you personally. Contrast this with doubters in the forum, many of whom don't even own Toyotas, who have no technical credentials, who have offered you nothing of monetary value, and who essentially seem to egg you on to remain upset. An objective observer would be at least tempted to suspect that you really enjoy being mad at this point. I myself am reasonably convinced that the sludge in preventable, and given the .1% occurrence rate, rather unlikely to occur in your or anybody's Toyota. And, if all this somehow fails, Toyota picks up the tab for you. At $6,000 a pop, one would have to think Toyota believes the answwer to Sludge is a shorter oil drain interval.
#827 of 877 I'd like to hear what .. by artwis May 02, 2002 (6:43 pm)
the "convincing and compelling" evidence is as far as a "engine will not sludge if the oil is changed every 3000 miles". One other comment, a friend of mine who is middle aged and was leasing a Camry got one of letters. All she thought was that Toyota was mad at her because she wasn't changing the oil often enough (which she wasn't). The lease then ended and she didn't even consider another Toyota (this was her 3rd or 4th Toyota lease) and instead leased a Altima. The letter itself may be scaring repeat customers away.
#828 of 877 bobistheoilguy and TMS I did a baseline analysis by pdalpsher May 02, 2002 (7:57 pm)
With my most recent oil change I asked for an oil analysis and I just got the results today. This is a 2001 Highlander V6 6407 miles and 2400 miles on the oil at the time of analysis. Also fyi, weather has been milder than normal some temps in lower 30's but into 40s+ during the day. My commuting is not heavy stop and go with the one-way distance being 12-15 miles. I've been getting 20-22 mpg with every fillup (vehicle is rated 19/23 for fuel economy) Results (Metals are in ppmillion by weight) copper 1 aluminum 4 iron 8 lead 131 chromium, nickel & tin 0 molybdenum 76 potassium 1 silicon 39 antimony, barium 0 calcium 2032 magnesium 9 phosphorus 875 sodium 6 zinc 992 Viscosity at 100 deg 8.28 water, glycol, fuel dilution 0% oxidation, nitration 0 TBN (D2896) 0.5 Comments: oil viscosity is 20W (was 10-30 Penzoil). High lead. The source may be the seating of bearings during the break-in process. TBN is low: oil is at end of service life. This oil had 2400 miles on it. Previous changes were at 1000, 4000 and I changed early this time as I traveled out of town. Three questions based on these results: 1. Would you keep this vehicle on a 3k cycle or shorten it to 2k? 2. How frequently should I get an analysis done? 3. Any issues with the analysis other than the comments noted?
#829 of 877 Analysis by armtdm May 03, 2002 (4:03 am)
Yes, lead very high but could be due to reason cited by lab. However, silicon also high end but that is probably due to silicon seals wearing in and not dirt. real issue is the oil. looks like the additive package is basically gone, TBN way too low. Rule of thumb is that when TBN reaches less then 50% of original value or below 2 it is time to change. I would suggest going to a different oil. My 92 (granted not the sludge prone V6) analysis looks the same for wear metals (except for lead) silicon in teens and additive and TBN good after 7,500 miles which I have been doing for past 5 years, but a synthetic. The Low TBN and additives after only 2400 miles, change brand of oil.