Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response - READ ONLY

877 messages, Last post on May 09, 2002 at 5:24 AM

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#819 of 877 RE: dtown by bob by dtownfb May 02, 2002 (1:07 pm)
True the owners do need to adjust their oil change interval but something official should come from Toyota with regard to this. Whether it's every 3k or 5k miles, it doesn't matter. Right now the manual they wrote on how to maintain the car they built says 7500 miles. That needs to be clarified. I think someone mentioned a sticker or some type of official revision to the manual. Yes common sense says not to do the same thing but I'm interested in not having the problem occur at all. Like I mentioned before, who wants to go through the hassle. I understand why some owners are still upset. They were treated very poorly by Toyota. That is why I suggested that Toyota write or call these individuals for their treatment. This could easily be done at the local level esp. since oyu are only talking about 3300 people. I think the board shoudl be left open but should only be for Toyota owners or prospective buyers. Shifty will have to use discretion as to which ones are pertinent to this board but as the saying goes, 'this is why he gets paid the big bucks'. Good luck and congrats to everyone with their Toyota. It seems like the company took the high road on this one.
#820 of 877 Will be interesting to see if this sludge issue has any by rubicon52 May 02, 2002 (1:15 pm)
long term effect on Toyota's reputation. The 8-year special policy is great, but without a full explanation of the sludging problem, there may be a some question in the mind of the consumer. I visit the other Toyota forums at Edmunds and have seen more than one poster wondering if he should consider a Toyota in light of the sludge issue. I'm also not sure if you can restore consumer confidence just by extending a warranty. Hyundai and Kia currently have the best warranties in the business in response to past reliability problems. However, I don't see that these long warranties have restored consumer confidence in their products. I know that Hyundai has seen a huge increase in sales, but both companies are selling vehicles solely on price. They are (as Warren Buffet would say) commodity businesses. Of course, neither of these companies has Toyota's great reputation to fall back on. The markets in which Toyota competes (family cars, all sizes of SUVs) are crowded with very good cars. A consumer with even a slight concern about sludge can readily find any number of good alternatives. I think something that we all agree on is that if you have a Toyota it's probably a good idea to shorten the oil change interval below the 7500 miles in the owners manual. At the same time other manufacturers are lengthening their oil change intervals and cars with oil monitoring systems often go 10K-15K miles before an oil change is needed. Again, some consumers may not consider this a big deal, but it is a departure from the past conventional wisdom that Toyotas are very tolerant of minimal maintenance.
#821 of 877 one word by wammerjammer May 02, 2002 (2:22 pm)
warranty. I see many people use it on this board. I don't see it in the "policy". Can the people from Toyota please explain.
#822 of 877 Another Reason for Sludge. by mrdetailer May 02, 2002 (3:03 pm)
See the full discussion on http://auto-rx.com/bmw_sludge_letter.htm I won't paste it since it contains some marketing information. But I found one statement interesting. Pardon the run on sentence "I find most top of the range Jap/German cars have a very fine mesh over the oil pick up pipe in the sump, in comparison to some lower quality 4 cylinder cars, the oil strainer mesh is of a wider gauge, I find these cars will deal with the sludge over a longer period, and when the top range cars start up cold ,the sludge is sucked in to the pick up and blocks the strainer eventually causing cams to run hot and resulting in premature wear of all major bearings as I'm sure you know this already ..." There are other interesting comments about sludge there also.
#823 of 877 jj35 on public reactions by deg856 May 02, 2002 (4:26 pm)
People who choose to post in this public forum are addressing the public in general, just as you have been doing. You have the right to remain angry and resentful for as long as you want, and others have the rights to voice their opinions publicly that such an attitude is not helpful in problem resolution. A lot of us have lost a lot of money and opportunities during the stock market down turn. That knowledge eats at us every time we think about it, but the smart ones put monetary and property losses behind them quickly. When I think about all the true suffering and tragedies all around us, here and abroad, I just can't identify with someone who wants to dedicate his/her life to "fight the sludge" due to "lack of respect". San Jose, CA
#825 of 877 my problem by jj35 May 02, 2002 (4:48 pm)
I could walk away mad and never have anything to do with Toyota again and despise my Sienna until I sell it. Or I could come to public forums to discuss my problem with people with technical expertise, try to figure out what is wrong with the vehicle, and go from there. I still don't know what is wrong. I am still trying to figure it out. No one has given me convincing and compelling evidence that I can change my oil every 3k miles and never have sludge again. I don't think anything was "fixed" on my engine, so whatever caused it to sludge is still there. Regarding your post, MrDetailer, I live in Florida where I do not have the problems with cold weather. Also my sludge was at one year, 17,000 miles. Your post may address some of the sludge problems, but not all. But thanks for the info. letsrock - I didn't get it either.
#826 of 877 by Mr_Shiftright HOST May 02, 2002 (6:08 pm)
telitlikeitis -- no purposeless Toyota bashing is allowed here. Your post has been removed. Please contribute something more constructive to the forum or stand by and read. thank you. jj35--please don't respond to trolls and troublemakers. RE: your comment: "No one has given me convincing and compelling evidence that I can change my oil every 3k miles and never have sludge again." What I'm hearing from some members of the forum is that you have in fact been given convincing and compelling evidence by both Toyota and other technical people but you just won't accept it. Toyota believes that you will never, ever have sludge again if you follow the oil drain recommendations and they are willing to back up their belief for 8 years and unlimited miles. They've even come here to tell you this, and to contact you personally. Contrast this with doubters in the forum, many of whom don't even own Toyotas, who have no technical credentials, who have offered you nothing of monetary value, and who essentially seem to egg you on to remain upset. An objective observer would be at least tempted to suspect that you really enjoy being mad at this point. I myself am reasonably convinced that the sludge in preventable, and given the .1% occurrence rate, rather unlikely to occur in your or anybody's Toyota. And, if all this somehow fails, Toyota picks up the tab for you. At $6,000 a pop, one would have to think Toyota believes the answwer to Sludge is a shorter oil drain interval.
#827 of 877 I'd like to hear what .. by artwis May 02, 2002 (6:43 pm)
the "convincing and compelling" evidence is as far as a "engine will not sludge if the oil is changed every 3000 miles". One other comment, a friend of mine who is middle aged and was leasing a Camry got one of letters. All she thought was that Toyota was mad at her because she wasn't changing the oil often enough (which she wasn't). The lease then ended and she didn't even consider another Toyota (this was her 3rd or 4th Toyota lease) and instead leased a Altima. The letter itself may be scaring repeat customers away.