Engine Sludge/Oil Gelling--Toyota's Customer Response - READ ONLY

877 messages, Last post on May 09, 2002 at 5:24 AM

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#814 of 877 I find this forum useful by jj35 May 02, 2002 (9:25 am)
One thing I take exception to in many recent posts is people telling me (as a person who has had a van with sludge) how I should feel and how grateful I should be now. Especially if they have not personally had the "sludge experience". I have every right to feel the way that I do! As I told Mr. Ertmann yesterday (yes, we finally connected), I probably would have complained and then left this site 10 months ago if it wasn't for all of the people on this and the previous board who haven't even experienced sludge that resort to insulting and chastising and now trying to tell the owners of sludged Toyotas how they should feel about Toyota's policies. This treatment, while not appreciated, has given me the drive to stay active. Some of the Toyota "supporters" have been as equally disruptive to Toyota's efforts as some of those recently banned, in my opinion. I am more appreciative of the efforts that Toyota is making through this forum to appease those with sludge than I am with the policy, to tell the truth. So closing this forum may result in refestering the wounds that have started to heal for some people or keeping them open for longer for others. As long as both sides can stop playing games and stop trying to one up each other and can share useful information, then I think there are benefits to all to keep this open.
#815 of 877 by innovations May 02, 2002 (10:01 am)
I have to agree jj35. It would be wise to leave the board open. Eventually more and more search engines will counter the negative posts on the web and point people in this direction. Some of the web crawlers take weeks and weeks to include new posts. I'm glad you finally had an opportunity to speak with tmusa. I believe they are doing the right thing. I too watched the "pro-Toyota" folks shoot their own selves in the foot by telling the people who had experienced the sludge "how they should feel". I saw that one coming and am glad you hung in there. I suspect it's also a reason this issue remained active for others too. Suffering takes time to heal. It's best to go through the process and not try to pretend it never existed. Thanks TMUSA for taking your time to help these people. I've been impressed.
#816 of 877 Question for TMSUSA1 by cholowicki May 02, 2002 (10:06 am)
How is Toyota educating their dealers about this policy? More than a few of the newer victims that I have been in contact with are not getting the same information from their dealers that you are posting here. I am guessing this is a Toyota internal communication issue, and am wondering how this policy information gets published to the dealer network. And for owners that are getting differing information from their dealers, who should they contact to get the dealer straightened out? You? The Gel Hotline? Thanks.
#817 of 877 by Mr_Shiftright HOST May 02, 2002 (10:43 am)
jj35---of course you have the right to feel the way you do, but with another interpretation the exact same experience would not be so unpleasant for you to feel. I think what people were suggesting is that they would deal differently with the same experience by interpreting differently the intentions and point of view of the dealer and of Toyota.
#819 of 877 RE: dtown by bob by dtownfb May 02, 2002 (1:07 pm)
True the owners do need to adjust their oil change interval but something official should come from Toyota with regard to this. Whether it's every 3k or 5k miles, it doesn't matter. Right now the manual they wrote on how to maintain the car they built says 7500 miles. That needs to be clarified. I think someone mentioned a sticker or some type of official revision to the manual. Yes common sense says not to do the same thing but I'm interested in not having the problem occur at all. Like I mentioned before, who wants to go through the hassle. I understand why some owners are still upset. They were treated very poorly by Toyota. That is why I suggested that Toyota write or call these individuals for their treatment. This could easily be done at the local level esp. since oyu are only talking about 3300 people. I think the board shoudl be left open but should only be for Toyota owners or prospective buyers. Shifty will have to use discretion as to which ones are pertinent to this board but as the saying goes, 'this is why he gets paid the big bucks'. Good luck and congrats to everyone with their Toyota. It seems like the company took the high road on this one.
#820 of 877 Will be interesting to see if this sludge issue has any by rubicon52 May 02, 2002 (1:15 pm)
long term effect on Toyota's reputation. The 8-year special policy is great, but without a full explanation of the sludging problem, there may be a some question in the mind of the consumer. I visit the other Toyota forums at Edmunds and have seen more than one poster wondering if he should consider a Toyota in light of the sludge issue. I'm also not sure if you can restore consumer confidence just by extending a warranty. Hyundai and Kia currently have the best warranties in the business in response to past reliability problems. However, I don't see that these long warranties have restored consumer confidence in their products. I know that Hyundai has seen a huge increase in sales, but both companies are selling vehicles solely on price. They are (as Warren Buffet would say) commodity businesses. Of course, neither of these companies has Toyota's great reputation to fall back on. The markets in which Toyota competes (family cars, all sizes of SUVs) are crowded with very good cars. A consumer with even a slight concern about sludge can readily find any number of good alternatives. I think something that we all agree on is that if you have a Toyota it's probably a good idea to shorten the oil change interval below the 7500 miles in the owners manual. At the same time other manufacturers are lengthening their oil change intervals and cars with oil monitoring systems often go 10K-15K miles before an oil change is needed. Again, some consumers may not consider this a big deal, but it is a departure from the past conventional wisdom that Toyotas are very tolerant of minimal maintenance.
#821 of 877 one word by wammerjammer May 02, 2002 (2:22 pm)
warranty. I see many people use it on this board. I don't see it in the "policy". Can the people from Toyota please explain.
#822 of 877 Another Reason for Sludge. by mrdetailer May 02, 2002 (3:03 pm)
See the full discussion on http://auto-rx.com/bmw_sludge_letter.htm I won't paste it since it contains some marketing information. But I found one statement interesting. Pardon the run on sentence "I find most top of the range Jap/German cars have a very fine mesh over the oil pick up pipe in the sump, in comparison to some lower quality 4 cylinder cars, the oil strainer mesh is of a wider gauge, I find these cars will deal with the sludge over a longer period, and when the top range cars start up cold ,the sludge is sucked in to the pick up and blocks the strainer eventually causing cams to run hot and resulting in premature wear of all major bearings as I'm sure you know this already ..." There are other interesting comments about sludge there also.
#823 of 877 jj35 on public reactions by deg856 May 02, 2002 (4:26 pm)
People who choose to post in this public forum are addressing the public in general, just as you have been doing. You have the right to remain angry and resentful for as long as you want, and others have the rights to voice their opinions publicly that such an attitude is not helpful in problem resolution. A lot of us have lost a lot of money and opportunities during the stock market down turn. That knowledge eats at us every time we think about it, but the smart ones put monetary and property losses behind them quickly. When I think about all the true suffering and tragedies all around us, here and abroad, I just can't identify with someone who wants to dedicate his/her life to "fight the sludge" due to "lack of respect". San Jose, CA