Last post on Dec 30, 2002 at 8:55 PM
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Ford F-250 Super Duty, Diesel, Truck
#1 of 105 ford power stroke diesel questions
Mar 30, 2002 (3:34 pm)
I was wondering if anyone could help me. I want a f 250 ext cab 4x4 diesel auto tranny but have heard mixed opinions about some questions I have. I drive 64 miles a day round trip[ to work 5 days a week, add another 100 miles minimun a week for other travel and then 2-3 300 mile trips out hunting and add a few more for vacations. I have had my tundra for less than a year and have 21k and counting and have added another 3-4 k on my 4runner which I have had for 6 months. Would it be a good idea to get the diesel and have one truck for everything? I don't haul very often but I do do occassional side jobs out of my truck( I am an electrician).Keep in mind I don't care about the frequency of oil changes/ anti freeze changes and additives, it is about the same for that truck as for my 2 trucks now. I also four wheel and this truck would get a lift and bigger tires(not too much), and I would possibly plow with it in the future. Any help or suggestions? I want to keep away from the ford gas engines, v8 not enough power, and we have a v10 in the truck at work and I would'nt get that engine. Any help?Sorry so long.
Mar 30, 2002 (7:12 pm)
If what you really want is to save money, get rid of the pathfinder and drive the wheels off the Tundra. Just make sure you are saving enough to replace it. I would say to keep the pathfinder over the tundra except an SUV isn't practical for your occupation, you need a truck. A PSD is fine, but you'll suffer on depreciation unloading the tundra at this time, also paying sales tax again, higher insurance, and if you financed before, you won't have much equity because the interest is loaded up front. Don't worry about the miles. Worry instead about continuing to save for the next one, even after the note is paid.
I suspect this really isn't about saving money, although you are looking for some justification to abandon the tundra and pathfinder and get into a PSD. You could be fooling only yourself. If you can afford the tundra, you won't worry about the miles you are putting on it. More expensive vehicles always cost more per mile than cheaper ones, no getting around this. My brutally honest $0.02
#3 of 105 I have to disagree.....
Mar 31, 2002 (6:16 am)
The PSD, or any diesel for that matter, is more expensive up front. And, I will agree with quad about higher priced vehicles costing more per mile to own. But, he is comparing apples to oranges and is probably not allowing for the differences between the two beasts. He is my take on the situation.
Typical gas powered truck:
Cost to purchase - appr. $25,000: Cost of oil changes every 2,500 miles (doing them myself) - appr. $600: Expected repairs - appr. $2,000: A grand total of appr. $27,600: If you put 150k on this truck and it is worth $0 at the end, the cost per mile to own this truck is 18.4 cents per mile.
Typical diesel powered truck:
Cost to purchase - $35,000: Cost of oil changes every 5,000 miles (doing them myself) - appr. $1,800: Expected repairs - appr. $4,000: Grand total of appr. $40,800: If you put 300k on this truck and it is worth $0 at the end, the cost per mile to own this truck is 13.6 cents per mile.
In the scenario above, I didn't even get into the fuel savings of the diesel.
Mar 31, 2002 (7:43 am)
Hey thanks for the feed back. I am really confused on what to do, I realize I will probably loose money on the tundra but I would make about a grand on the 4runner cause I got it for cheap and did 90% of the maintainence myself(sell it outright). The gas prices are starting to rise but I have not seen the diesel prices so I can't compare. As for insurance it would be the same for my 2 trucks as compared to 1 truck and the sales tax and other misc. fees would be the only bad thing as well as the starting over of the term(4 yrs left on my tundra). THanks for the help guys.
#5 of 105 themailman1
Mar 31, 2002 (2:51 pm)
Diesel is higher priced here in Wa. the ps takes 12 quarts of oil plus a 12-15$ filter, fuel filters,up front cost dosen't add up unless you are going to use it for heavy work. I had a 96 ps e-xcab auto 4:10 ratio got 16-18 mpg excellant power ride& driving but just to expensive to use as a car.Don't claim to have all the answers but that is what I found out from having one.
Mar 31, 2002 (4:42 pm)
If you only use one as a "car" and get a new one every few years, the diesel is not an option. You really need to run one at least 100k to 150k miles to break even. After projecting current mileage trends, my truck will have approximately 300k miles on it come time for a new one.
Mar 31, 2002 (7:26 pm)
Of all the comparos I've ever seen, that's the silliest!!!
Why are you halfing the oil change intervals on the diesel??? Especially with the PSD, the oil changes are even more critical than a gasser.
Did you factor in the interest on $4600 over 5 years that the "average" truck owner will pay for the diesel??
The repairs on ancillary items will not be in line with a gasser. Water pumps on a PSD are $700 vs $100 for a V10. Injectors are 3X's the amount.
You have coolant additives, a few more and expensive filters.
$0 value 150K for a gasser??? LMAO!!!
If you buy the diesel because of the better high altitude hauling, for its obnoxious smells or sounds, for its sluggish off the line performance(PSD and cummins) more power to you.
If you buy a diesel because of some perceived value advantage......Enron comes to mind.
Apr 01, 2002 (8:32 am)
No, I did not factor in the interest on the extra $4,600, in fact, I did not factor in any interest. The $0 end value is for illustration only and represents worst case scenario, a person can argue end value from now 'till the cows come home and still not know what that value will be X number of years down the road. You may think the PSD needs oil changes every 2,500 miles, but repeated oil analysis has shown that 5,000 miles is fine. No one can accurately estimate repair costs over the life of a vehicle, those were ESTIMATES, what the average person can EXPECT to pay over the life of the vehicle. A neighbor of mine handles extended warranty claims. They tell me my estimates are in the ballpark. I'm sorry if you don't like diesels, roll up your windows. And I did not buy my truck for its drag strip performance. As far as value goes, this truck should outlast two gassers. It would cost me much more for the two gassers than it cost for the one PSD.
#9 of 105 Themailman1, I bought my PSD...
Apr 01, 2002 (9:18 am)
'00 350 CC 4x4 LWB SRW because I knew I wouldn't be buying another vehicle anytime soon and I wanted a truck that would not limit my horizons. It will pull/carry anything I am likely to need and will go anywhere I am likely to want to go, except into my garage.... I plan to keep it till the wheels fall off.
For the diesels, oil changes certainly cost more - hey, there's 4 gallons of oil in that engine - but they are less frequent (5k miles instead of 3k) so it comes a little closer to averaging out. It certainly is not as bad as modvptnl makes it sound, and there is a 100k mile warranty on the diesel engine/drivetrain. I've put 41k miles on mine since May of 2000, and so far have spent about $1k on maintenance at the dealer...and not a penny of it went for engine problems. If I'd done my own work, it would have cost me less, but I think I'll stick with Ford maintenance at least until it runs out of warranty.
My driving is about the same as what you stated. Diesel fuel generally costs about the same, or less, than the cheapest grade of gasoline and the diesel gets about 25% better mileage than equivalent gasoline units. I get 16-17 mpg combined mileage and 19 mpg on strictly highway miles. You won't get that kind of efficiency from ANY gasoline powered one-ton pickup. There are a lot of half-tons that can't match it. The extra cost of my engine will be more than paid for by the time I sell it.
From your post, you hunt a bit. If that takes you high up in the mountains, you will REALLY appreciate all that turbocharged torque...it simply can't be beat. The only gas engine that Ford makes that has a prayer of giving similar performance is the V10, and frankly, the V10 is a distant cousin when loaded or towing, especially at altitude. It just can't cut it above about 7,000 feet, loaded.
You might give some thought to a Crew Cab...I didn't like the looks at first, but I find that the extra interior space is way more useful than I ever anticipated. I wouldn't give it up now...
Apr 01, 2002 (12:14 pm)
....are you guys claiming the gassers need more frequent oil changes????? The PSD is VERY susceptible to contaminated oil due to its fuel injection system. While I do change my oil on the V10 3000 miles, I would probably do the same with a diesel. Put another way, 5k on synthetic in my gasser would not cause me any worry.
Mullins, I agree with your first paragraph in post #8 more so than your last post. As far as warranties go, check out the surcharge on an extended warranty for a diesel....you'll choke on the cost difference.
Jd, didn't we go through this before?? (if not I apologize)The 100,000 mile warranty is NOT on the powertrain...just the diesel motor.
Currently(in Vegas) diesel is more expensive than the regular I can run in the gasser.
Pulling max loads at altitude a diesel cannot be beat.