Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#9231 of 16984 Re: Acura TL is no ELLPS [blueguydotcom]
Mar 20, 2007 (11:06 am)
I was talking about 6 speed automatics and I'm pretty sure the Jetta didnt have one in 2002. My point was you can get 6 speed autos in cars costing less than $25k these days when they were only found in luxury brands 3-4 years ago.
what compromise is involved in driving a four door car? Two extra doors might add 50 lbs of curb weight, if that. Hardly a big deal in my book. Beyond styling differences (not every car looks better with two doors) a sedan and coupe version of the same car are largely the same.
I dont have problem with RWD although I fail to see why a RWD has to cost more. BTW, as we've already noted there are RWD cars available for less money comparably equipped than the 3 so I dont see why people are saying "the 3 is worth a premium because its RWD". So are other cars in this class.
The A3 is another overweight small car.
#9232 of 16984 Re: 3 series size [fedlawman]
Mar 20, 2007 (11:09 am)
If one loves BMWS and has no desire to buy another brand one is unlikely to be impressed by other brands. If one only likes BMWs ANY other brand of car would be considered a "poor value". Most people (media included) feel the G35 is a relatively good buy. Fully loaded I think it's about $6k-$7k less than a loaded 335.
Mar 20, 2007 (11:20 am)
is on my short list as a possibility, but not the sedan. Too big, and where the styling idiom works on the coupe, it fails utterly on the sedan, IMO. Every time I see one of the sedans on the road I register "Buick" in the back of my mind...
#9234 of 16984 Re: G35 coupe... [wale_bate1]
Mar 20, 2007 (11:57 am)
I definitely felt the same on the G sedan 2006 and back. The 2007 looks much better to me.
#9235 of 16984 Maybe what we need is...
Mar 20, 2007 (12:35 pm)
another board with the title "Up-n'-Comers" which includes cars like the A3, TSX, the future 1-series and many others that might fit in that description. That case those whom think the ELLPS are turning into Buicks will have a place to go to talk about the light, agile and highly manuverable vehicles.
#9236 of 16984 Re: Maybe what we need is... [louiswei]
Mar 20, 2007 (1:01 pm)
"That case those whom think the ELLPS are turning into Buicks will have a place to go to talk about the light, agile and highly manuverable vehicles...
Which are becoming the new ELLPS.
#9237 of 16984 Re: Maybe what we need is... [wale_bate1]
Mar 20, 2007 (2:01 pm)
Okay fine, then I propose MLLPS for the cars that were originally considered in this thread. Mid Level Luxury Performance Sedans. How's that?
#9238 of 16984 Re: Acura TL is no ELLPS 
Mar 20, 2007 (3:18 pm)
The A3 is a wagon. It's not even a hatch.
Sedans have trunks not hatches.
Malibu Maxx=hatch/wagon (IMHO it's a hatch!)
RWD cars cost more to manufacture than FWD cars. I remember an article in BusinessWeek explaining how Toyota/Honda/Datsun(Remember them?) introduced FWD cars to the States when the Big 3 (or was it 4 back then?) were pretty much all RWD. The imports were of course a lot cheaper due to lower (back then) labor costs in Japan and the smaller packaging.
I think it got resolved awhile back that the TSX isn't really a performance sedan being that it's a rebadged European Accord. I dunno.
Mid-level performance sedans? That sounds like we're settling. There's already a LPS forum for RL's, STS's, 5-series, etc.
Regarding the CTS size, I do believe that Caddy initially tried to market the CTS as a 5 series fighter. However, the CTS lacked the refinement and gadgetry to honestly call itself a 5 series fighter. In Europe, Caddy has the BLS to compete with the 3 series. Do they price the CTS like the 5 series in Europe?
#9239 of 16984 Re: Acura TL is no ELLPS [allargon]
Mar 20, 2007 (4:09 pm)
Actually, Audi calls the A3 a sportback! LOL.
But what is the difference between a wagon and a hatch? 5 vs. 3 doors, respectively? I think it has more to do with the style. A wagon is more vertical in the rear door/window. A hatch has a more horizontally placed rear door/window. That's just my opinion.
#9240 of 16984 Re: Acura TL is no ELLPS [allargon]
Mar 20, 2007 (4:23 pm)
"I think it got resolved awhile back that the TSX isn't really a performance sedan being that it's a rebadged European Accord. I dunno."
Yeah, the TSX is the European Accord but I disagree that it isn't a performance sedan. It's relatively light, nimble, has a 6MT and a high revving 4 cylinder VTEC engine. Additionally, it handles pretty good for a FWD sedan.