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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 920 of 1609

#9189 of 16087 Re: Midsized ELLPS [blueguydotcom] by allargon

Mar 19, 2007 (5:32 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Mar 19, 2007 5:06 pm)
It was a Bimmer salesguy that told me that. I kind of took it with a grain of salt for obvious reasons. He was right about the A4's back seat being small. Actually, the front seat of the A4 is the only car I've ever sat in that made me feel fat! I'm glad that the A4 isn't a glorified Jetta. I will definitely withdraw the inference I made.
 
The Germans automakers really don't believe in synergies, do they? Mercedes doesn't want to share too much with Chrysler, and BMW doesn't appear to care about lacking a mid-sized mass market sedan. I guess Audi and Lambo are the only ones that share.
 
The e46's backseat isn't that bad. However, I won't call it spacious for anyone above 5'10". However the backseat headroom in the e90 door is just painful. (I bumped my head entering and exiting twice while sober with my buddy driving. I won't even mention the times after we started drinking simply because I can't remember them! ) Your 6'3" friend can sit in the back of an e90 without complaining? Is he like a contortionist or something? I couldn't imagine being 6'3" and being comfortable in the back of a CTS or TL (best in this class).
 
No road trips? Blueguy, you are definitely Californian! I love you for that. You remind me of all my friends in the Bay Area that thought I was nuts whenever I drove from Mountain View to LA.
 
This was pre-9/11. They all said, "There are planes for that." LOL. Seriously, aren't we supposed to be enthusiasts here who love to drive? I remember taking my *cough* sport sedan (1994 Pontiac Grand Am SE) down the 5 to LA. Highway cruising is definitely a different driving experience than going on the track or the twisties, but I wouldn't say it's not fun.
 
Blueguy, wouldn't you want to run your e46 through West Texas hitting the electronic limiter just for fun?

#9190 of 16087 Re: Euro Delivery [blueguydotcom] by ivan_99

Mar 19, 2007 (6:04 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Mar 19, 2007 5:04 pm)
When looking at BMW's site, the highest discount for the 3 series is $3435 for the 335i Convertible.
 
Did you negotiate down from the ED savings? Or did you do something else?
 
I assumed you would just have to take the car at MSRP - ED discount.

#9191 of 16087 Re: Euro Delivery [ivan_99] by ggesq

Mar 19, 2007 (6:58 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Mar 19, 2007 6:04 pm)
ED is worth it imo because you get a pretty good discount, get to pick up your car, tool around Europe if you like and go on the "suggested" tours and make a vacation out of it. It's especially sweet if you have enough miles saved up so your trip can be free.
 
On the other hand, if you don't have miles & don't have time off from work to get a vacation, then the $$ spent on the trip (however short lived it may be) narrows the gap you actually save by doing the ED program.
 
From my reading of the ED program on BMW's site, it seems like a pretty cool program i.e. if I ever to decide to get into a BMW.
 
Just my .02. Correct me if I'm wrong.

#9192 of 16087 Re: Euro Delivery [ivan_99] by blueguydotcom

Mar 19, 2007 (7:41 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Mar 19, 2007 6:04 pm)
When looking at BMW's site, the highest discount for the 3 series is $3435 for the 335i Convertible.
 
Do you normally start negotiating to buy a car based on the MSRP or invoice? same with ED. There's ED pricing and there's ED invoice. you start at ED invoice pricing and work up. People who buy based on ED MSRP are the same rubes who buy cars at MSRP.
  
I assumed you would just have to take the car at MSRP - ED discount.
 
Nope. Start at the lowest price they pay and tack on a profit for them - most often 1k.
 
If I'm not mistaken, base ED invoice is $34,950 for the e92 (base MSRP is $40,800). Options are invoice priced too so every option creates a wider and wider gulf.

#9193 of 16087 Re: Midsized ELLPS [allargon] by blueguydotcom

Mar 19, 2007 (7:47 pm)

Replying to: allargon (Mar 19, 2007 5:32 pm)
April of 06 I drove from Munich to Nice, France in my e90. Took the scenic route through the alps - avoiding toll roads.
 
I drove back from Avignon, France to Munich in under 6 hours about 11 days later.
 
I've taken road trips many times; but since college those have pretty much been confined to me alone or me with a female companion. Not a car full of people. There's nothing fun or pleasant about having other people along for a ride unless that other person is a significant other. Two's company, three is just shoot-me-in-the-head now.
 
I love a quick jaunt from San Diego to SF (6-6.5 or so hours) or SD to Vegas (4 hours tops). Hell we jammed up to LA last Tuesday for a 20 minute transaction.

#9194 of 16087 Re: Euro Delivery [ivan_99] by shipo

Mar 19, 2007 (7:48 pm)

Replying to: ivan_99 (Mar 19, 2007 6:04 pm)
"I assumed you would just have to take the car at MSRP - ED discount."
 
Egad, perish the thought. Why "give" the dealer all that money? I don't mean that you should make them starve, however, I think $1,000 to $1,200 is more than enough profit for filling out a little paperwork. I mean, they are selling you a car that they wouldn't be able to sell were it not for the fact that you are willing to go to Europe to get it.
 
The "proper" way (IMHO) to buy (or lease) an ED car is to find out what the ED invoice is on the car, add the shipping charges, the invoice of any options you might want and say $1,000 for dealer profit. Then you make your local dealership an offer. Some dealers will take the deal, some won't. The dealership where I leased my first BMW from didn't. I went fifteen miles down the road (literally, the same road even) and made the same offer. Done deal in under an hour. I picked the car up seven weeks later.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#9195 of 16087 Re: Well... [quasiactuary] by oldcem

Mar 19, 2007 (8:52 pm)

Replying to: quasiactuary (Mar 19, 2007 6:37 am)
I'll tell you one more time. JD Powers ranked the X second to Lexus. One of the other posters even pointed this out. I'm assuming that they polled a representative sample of the 400k owners out there. If you have a big problem with their survey results - carp at them. I will take issue with your GM statement. When I left the corporation, I don't think they tested anything twice - look at some of the crap they built and relied on their marketing muscle to sell. Anyway, the X is supposed to be in production until 2010, if you can believe management's statements to the press. By that time I'll be out test driving all the competition for my wallet again. Nice thing about my employer is we get employee pricing on virtually all car makes. Get back to me in 2010 and you can rant about what I decide to buy next.
 
Regards:
OldCEM

#9196 of 16087 In fairness ... by habitat1

Mar 19, 2007 (8:56 pm)

...to those that might have thought the BMW ED price (MSRP) was non-negotiable, that is the case for Mercedes and Volvo. Those dealers make a fixed fee for handling an ED order that is significantly less than the markup a BMW dealer makes on an ED MSRP sale.
 
For a long time there was a secret pact amoung BMW dealers in my area not to discount ED prices. Then one dealer left the cartel in about 2000/2001 and the secret was out (and discounts were in).

#9197 of 16087 Re: Euro Delivery [blueguydotcom] by hauss

Mar 19, 2007 (9:29 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (Mar 19, 2007 5:04 pm)
Is that above or below invoice usually?

#9198 of 16087 Re: Jags, G35's reliabilty and more. Please no more Accord talk [quasiactua [fedlawman] by oldcem

Mar 19, 2007 (9:30 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Mar 18, 2007 9:03 am)
Obviously I own an X-Type, and, I take the surveys and mag articles with a grain of salt. In my opinion, the truth is:
1. The 2002 X-Type had a bunch of niggling problems, and, one major problem - the trannys in a bunch of them failed. Ford rushed the car to market before it was fully sorted out, and, pissed off a bunch of first time buyers.
2. By the 2003 model year, Ford had recalled and replaced all the bad trannys, and, addressed some of the other niggling problems. However, by then, Ford had really sullied the car's reputation.
3. The following model years continued to get better, Ford continued to improve the vehicle mechanically. However, they missed the boat by not introducing a larger engined "R" model to compete head to head with BMW, Infiniti, Etc. This would have reignited interest in the line. The car continued to move up in various quality surveys, but, few were paying attention. In addition, Jag's advertising department was and remains absolutely impotent.
5. Today, the car is vastly improved over what it was in 2002. Jag, too late in my opinion, has reduced prices and added features that make the car a relative bargain when compared to comparably equipped competitors. It still lacks a "flagship" model, and, its too late to introduce one now. At its current price point, its hard to beat, but, few consider it. Enthusiasts sneer, because 5 speed manual sport models are no longer available in the US.
 
Regards:
OldCEM

Messages Page 920 of 1609

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