Last post on May 25, 2013 at 4:58 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#8609 of 16088 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [blueguydotcom]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:37 pm)
So you find the Cobalt and the new CTS to be similar? Interesting. I would suspect less savvy people would be hard pressed to know the two interiors came from the same company. I respect the honesty you are displaying here. I find it quite interesting that one could hate car brands so much. You seem to have serious grudge againt anything american as regards to cars. So I assume based on your comments that you see no difference between GM cars (or even Cadillacs specifically) in 1987 and 2007.
Cant say that I agree but its a free country.
#8610 of 16088 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [andres3]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:45 pm)
A3's chassis and structure are based on a $15k economy car (as as was the old TT). I don't see how that's luxurious. My point to you all is that if I'm gonna pay the premium for a near lux car, it'd better have something to make it more special than a loaded Altima besides intangible things as "nice chassis and solid frame." We as consumers can't measure the stiffness of a frame or gauge how durable a CV joint will be. What I can do is get in a compact car that cost $33k and realize it doesn't have leather, heated seats, HIDs, etc and wonder what I'm paying for. I don't think average people who aren't obsessed with brand image can make rational sense of such a purchase. Just my opinion. My aunt's S430 doesn't have any options, but hey, it's a Benz so it must be a "nice" car. $72k+ with no HIDs and 16" wheels.
#8611 of 16088 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [fedlawman]
Mar 07, 2007 (12:59 pm)
That example works if you're an accountant trying to save your company money. However, if you're a consumer who likes cars and plans to spend time in it and enjoy it, gimme some features. Sitting in traffic, as many of us do, I don't see how knowing that your car has grade A suspension tuning eases the pain of the commute better than a CD changer to pass the time or heated seats on a cold morning. Perhaps it's just me....
Why do Europeans charge for metallic paint anyway? Can someone please explain? Another question for my information, does anyone brag about a non sport packaged BMW's handling?
#8612 of 16088 Informal Poll - ELLPS
Mar 07, 2007 (1:06 pm)
I tend to agree with fedlawman. All the cars in this forum are capable cars. I think perceptions change based on experience. The quality/reliability thing is starting to tighten up between brands and is expected to be there.
Perhaps we should all vote for the candidates by individual preference. My choices based on everything I know now would be:
#8613 of 16088 Well, based on...
Mar 07, 2007 (1:36 pm)
what I've shopped and what I would actually pay money for today, I'd have to say:
The others have nothing currently I want.
#8614 of 16088 Re: Gotta chime in here [fedlawman]
Mar 07, 2007 (1:37 pm)
I agree with your post, fedlawman. I chimed in because I think a lot of these cars are very similar. I posted the little differences that got me to buy the C-series rather than the CTS or 3-series (didn't try a G35). In my mind, they are little differences - and people rate their importance differently.
I am a little surprised that people are saying the C-class is the most inferior, and not in the same class, etc. For me, it was (is) the best car of the group.
Its possible I'll be speaking a different tune 2 years from now, but in the first 11 mos of ownership, I've had zero problems and only good things.
#8615 of 16088 Re: Informal Poll - ELLPS [circlew]
Mar 07, 2007 (1:39 pm)
So, Circlew, you wouldn't even consider MB to be even under consideration?
#8616 of 16088 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [chavis10]
Mar 07, 2007 (1:50 pm)
"if you're a consumer who likes cars and plans to spend time in it and enjoy it, gimme some features."
I agree AND disagree with you.
I agree that if all you do is sit in rush hour traffic 2 hours every day, you don't need a 3-series, CTS, TL or any other sporty sedan. A 4 cylinder Camry is just as refined and comfortable, and has the leather seats, Sat-Nav, and laser-guided cruise control you crave.
I believe that an ELLPS is supposed to be for the person that wants comfort, quality, safety, and luxury for their M-F carpool, but also enjoys attacking Mulholland Drive or attending an occasional HPDE on the weekend. There is no better car on the road for doing both very well than an ELLPS.
Now, the difference between the BMW 3-series and the Cadillac CTS is relatively small. If you never drive above 8/10ths of your cars (or your own) capabilities, you'll never notice the difference - just pick the one that has the looks/driving feel you like. OTOH, if you do decide to raise the fun up a couple of notches, you will quickly separate the wheat from the chaff.
The overboosted, lightweight steering of the CTS (or IS350 for that matter) makes the car feel very nimble and responsive at 8/10ths. At 9/10ths, the lack of feedback and light touch require extra concentration and minute steering corrections from the driver - now the car is beginning to feel "twitchy" and unstable. At 10/10ths, it can be downright scary (in reality, thanks to the traction nannies, it'll just push and decelerate).
For 90% of drivers who are shopping this segment, I say, just stay below 8/10ths and enjoy your Lexus, Cadillac, Acura, etc.
#8617 of 16088 Re: Informal Poll - ELLPS [circlew]
Mar 07, 2007 (2:15 pm)
Would jump to Mazda or Subaru before any of the following:
#8618 of 16088 Re: Intellichoice Cadillac CTS vs Acura TLS-s... [joe131]
Mar 07, 2007 (2:33 pm)
"Intellichoice figures in my previous post were for 2007 cars, not 2004. They are best estimations of what an average owner can reasonably expect, not numbers based on your own personal cars and your one person experience."
The figures I quoted were ACTUAL KBB trade-in values for comparably equiped 2004 models TODAY. They weren't my personal figures. And they weren't some hypothetical estimate of future resale values.
"In the case of CTS/TLS the target prices were CTS $31,302 and TLS-S $36,504."
Again, I think you're way the heck off on an apples to apples comparison. The MSRP of a CTS is $41,000+/- for a car with most - but not all - of the features found in a base TL w/ Nav. The base TL MSRP is $36,000+/-. Why don't you compare a TL-S to a CTS-V? If you are telling me that a CTS with an MSRP of $41k could be purchased for $10k off at $31.3, well then that's almost a good deal. A bast TL with a MSRP could be purchased for about $2k more than that, but would still be worth $5k more in 3 years.
Slice, dice, and fry the figures any way you want. In the real world, GM has horrible resale and Cadillac brings up the rear. Any Japanese or German premium car will have considerably higher resale as a percentage of it's purchase price. These aren't my figures and can be easily verifiable by looking at current resale values.