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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 857 of 1610

#8555 of 16087 Costs Intellichoice says Acura vs. Cadillac... [habitat1] by joe131

Mar 06, 2007 (7:57 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Mar 06, 2007 4:46 am)
Don't like Edmunds? Here's what Intellichoice says are new luxury cars with the lowest ownership costs:
(Cadillac STS is 4th best, Volvo S80 is 9th, Audi A6 is in 10th place)
 
New 2007 Cars with Lowest Ownership Costs
  
Best of Luxury Class
  
Saab 9-5............................Audi A6 3.2
Audi A6 3.2 Quattro............BMW 525 xi
BMW 530 i........................BMW 525 i
Cadillac STS V6.................Infiniti M35 Sport
Infiniti M35 AWD.................Infiniti M35
Lexus GS 300 RWD............Lexus GS 300 AWD
Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI....Saab 9-5 SportCombi
Saab 9-5 w/Sport Package...Saab 9-5 SportCombi w/Sport Pkg
Volvo S80............................Volvo S80 AWD
 
5 year ownership cost is:
$46399 for Cadillac CTS 3.6 liter
$44365 for Acura TL type S

#8556 of 16087 Intellichoice 5 yr. True cost to own: CTS....TL.....335i... [habitat1] by joe131

Mar 06, 2007 (8:52 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Mar 06, 2007 4:46 am)
Cad CTS 3.6..........Acura TL-S.........BMW 335i
 
Depreciation...$21,229....$18,092.....$18,365
Financing.........$5,019.....$5,699.......$5,941
Insurance.........$8,935.....$8,734......$10,150
State.Fees..........$392.......$429.........$434
Fuel.................$8,667.....$8,663.....$8,887
Maintenance....$1,722.....$2,466.....$1,512
Repairs..............$433........$281.........$986

#8557 of 16087 Wow by plekto

Mar 07, 2007 (2:07 am)

I can't believe he's STILL going on about the A4.
 
The simple truth is that the A4 feels good adn seems to be a better car... until you push it hard. THen the illusion fall apart.
 
The CTS, otoh, it has a typical overboosted GM steering feel, but despite the numb wheel, it flies through twisties when you whomp on it. And with the 3.6VVT engine, you really can whomp on it hard.
 
Do a check online to see the new CTS-V being tested at "The Ring" - it growls and screams around the track like a startled animal. And goes like it's possessed - I mean, really, REALLY faster than any sane person could or would drive in the U.S. outside of a racetrack. At the end of the clip, note how it storms up on that white hatchback. That tells you how silly fast it's being driven.
 
Really - watch it and try to not keep your brain from siezing up. It drives well, perhaps "Cadillac" needs to put a new badge on it, because it's like no Cadillac that I've ever seen before. I guess this would be like buying an apple and it tasting like a strawberry when you bit into it. Something doesn't click in place. Lol.
 
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/videos/spyshotvideos/203740/cadillac_cts.html
 
Yet, there it is. The world really does seem to have turned itself inside-out this time. BMW's got a hell of a lot of worrying to do.

#8559 of 16087 ELLPS missing [pat] by joe131

Mar 07, 2007 (2:55 am)

Replying to: pat (Mar 06, 2007 9:51 am)
How about adding the Lincoln ELLPS to the board's list? I think it is called the MKZ nowadays.

#8560 of 16087 Re: Wow [plekto] by shipo

Mar 07, 2007 (5:15 am)

Replying to: plekto (Mar 07, 2007 2:07 am)
The CTS-V is not part of this discussion. That said, folks from the Infiniti, Lexus, Audi, Mercedes-Benz and Cadillac camps have been saying for nearly a decade that BMW has lots of worring to do, and that "the end is near". I suppose folks will keep saying that for quite some time to come, however, BMW always seems to have no problem keeping the competition covered, and then some. I understand that there are a lot of folks out there that are constantly pulling for the underdog, and that no matter how good the reigning champ is, they'll always prognosticate a complete fall from grace in the very near term future.
 
My prediction? Not happening any time soon. Competition is a good thing. Competition improves the breed. BMW loves competition, thrives on it, feeds off of it, and contiually does what it can to both raise the bar from a performance perspective AND cater to its fans who could care less about the sporting nature of their cars. Worry? Nah. Keeping a sharp eye peeled to figure out where the next battle ground will be? Absolutely.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#8561 of 16087 Re: ELLPS missing [joe131] by shipo

Mar 07, 2007 (5:18 am)

Replying to: joe131 (Mar 07, 2007 2:55 am)
I'm really trying to understand how the FWD sled called the MKZ would fit in the ELLPS classification. I mean, is it sporting by Lincoln standards? Ummm, no, I don't think so, I mean, geez, an old Lincoln LS would be able to take that thing apart from a sporting nature. Sporting by ELLPS standards? I'm even more skeptical there.
 
Sorry, I think the MKZ needs to find another home.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#8562 of 16087 Re: ELLPS missing [shipo] by pat

Mar 07, 2007 (5:29 am)

Replying to: shipo (Mar 07, 2007 5:18 am)
I think the MKZ needs to find another home.
 
Yes, we came to that agreement a few months back.

#8563 of 16087 Re: Costs Intellichoice says Acura vs. Cadillac... [joe131] by habitat1

Mar 07, 2007 (5:36 am)

Replying to: joe131 (Mar 06, 2007 7:57 pm)
Joe,
 
Save your breath - I don't put much credibility in any of the "true cost to own" lists. Not Edmunds, Intellichoice, Kiplingers, or others. I think they try to be as accurate as they can, but they are, at best, based upon a lot of hypotheticals that don't match my own experience. I have always paid cash for all my cars. Has kept me from ever spending beyond my comfort level. Depreciation is a factor I consider, if I think there is a chance I'll sell/trade the car in less than 5-7 years.
 
From Kelly Blue Book, the "trade in" value for 2004 models of the Acura TL 6-speed w/ Nav and the CTS 5-speed w/ Nav, 30,000 miles each and "excellent" condition:
 
Acura TL: $23,875 vs. current MSRP of $36,125 = $12,250 "loss" vs. new MSRP
Cadillac CTS: $18,625 vs. current MSRP of $41,180 = $22,555 "loss" vs. new MSRP
 
Everything on the TL (other than Nav) is standard, so it's hard to be sure I'm correctly optioning the CTS, but at a minimum, it appears the difference in MSRP is $5,000 without all the standard features offered by Acura.
 
The "true cost of depreciation" by my calcs shows the TL $10,000+ ahead of the CTS. Those are real numbers that are from real (KBB) trade in values today. You ask the Edmunds host and others how they came up with their figures. It is a mystery to me.
 
P.S. I suspect you'll counter that GM might give me a bigger discount on the CTS than I could get from Acura on the TL. But I managed to negotiate a $10,000 discount on a brand new 2005 Porsche 911S from a Baltimore dealer when the best I could do in the DC area was about $1,500 off. I would rather work hard to get a decent/good discount on a great car, than get a great discount on a (IMO) ugly, lower quality car.
 
P.P.S. My Acura dealer wants to buy back my TL for cash at slightly MORE than KBB Trade in value. It is a highly desireable car in the used car market. Try finding a Cadillac dealer that would do that with a 2004 CTS - not in a million years, at least in our area.

#8564 of 16087 Re: ELLPS missing [shipo] by circlew

Mar 07, 2007 (5:54 am)

Replying to: shipo (Mar 07, 2007 5:18 am)
Shipo,
 
I agree completely...after the LS, which I owned, Lincoln is done with Performance. Perhaps in the future when they merge and reinvent the brand.
 
Lincoln is done with "Hot Rod" status as far as I'm concerned. "My pappy says, "Son, your gonna drive me to ..." The END.
 
Regards,
OW

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