Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#8552 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... 
Mar 06, 2007 (5:07 pm)
"Are you seriously stating that cars like the GS, IS, STS, CTS, etc. have ntohign in common with the C, E, 3 and 5?"
No, I was saying that Cadillac has nothing in common with Lexus. You put Cadillac and Lexus in the same sentence comparing them to German cars. Japan competes with Germany pretty well. In spite of owning a 911, I am still not afraid to steer soemone to my former Honda S2000 over a base Boxster. But when I consider all factors: build quality, fit and finish, driving dynamics, resale value, styling (subjective as it may be), I just can't accept that Cadillac really competes with EITHER the German or japanese premium cars.
"Never said the CTS is a leader in resale value but I have to admit your numbers seem a little off. I rarely see used CTS models around here for under $24k or so. Are those numbers based on one particular car you saw for sale or did you get that from kbb? sorry but $40K to $18k in three years seems a little off to me."
I got my numbers from Edmunds used car values, for 2004 models with 30,000 miles in "clean" condition, and comparably equiped. I was quoting dealer trade in values.
I really don't want to disparage someone who may prefer Cadillac. They may not be my cup of tea but I can accept that some people have different priorities. But I do believe that the ridiculously low resale values of GM cars in general (forget trucks and the Corvette) says a lot about their long term appeal. One thing I can almost guarantee you - if I took my 12 year old Maxima w/ 155k miles to a GM dealer, I'd be hard pressed to find a 3-4 year old car with 40,000 miles that looked as good, was a rattle free and drove as well.
Mar 06, 2007 (5:11 pm)
seminar posters. . .from GM.
#8554 of 16984 Costs. Edmunds says: Acura vs. Cadillac... [habitat1]
Mar 06, 2007 (6:25 pm)
Edmunds figures are averages, no doubt. They did not use your personal cars as their models for calculations. So what?
Where did you get your $22k 3 year depreciation figure on the CTS? If you are looking at leasing residual value guides, I believe you'll find those percentages are based on MSRP, not actual or TMV purchase prices.
And when you calculated your $9k depreciation on your own Acura, how did you arrive at your figure?
Edmunds is probably better than most when it comes to figuring True Cost To Own figures. If you think they are doing it wrong and can convince them why, I bet they'd welcome your input.
#8555 of 16984 Costs Intellichoice says Acura vs. Cadillac... [habitat1]
Mar 06, 2007 (6:57 pm)
Don't like Edmunds? Here's what Intellichoice says are new luxury cars with the lowest ownership costs:
(Cadillac STS is 4th best, Volvo S80 is 9th, Audi A6 is in 10th place)
New 2007 Cars with Lowest Ownership Costs
Best of Luxury Class
Saab 9-5............................Audi A6 3.2
Audi A6 3.2 Quattro............BMW 525 xi
BMW 530 i........................BMW 525 i
Cadillac STS V6.................Infiniti M35 Sport
Infiniti M35 AWD.................Infiniti M35
Lexus GS 300 RWD............Lexus GS 300 AWD
Mercedes-Benz E320 CDI....Saab 9-5 SportCombi
Saab 9-5 w/Sport Package...Saab 9-5 SportCombi w/Sport Pkg
Volvo S80............................Volvo S80 AWD
5 year ownership cost is:
$46399 for Cadillac CTS 3.6 liter
$44365 for Acura TL type S
#8556 of 16984 Intellichoice 5 yr. True cost to own: CTS....TL.....335i... [habitat1]
Mar 06, 2007 (7:52 pm)
Cad CTS 3.6..........Acura TL-S.........BMW 335i
Mar 07, 2007 (1:07 am)
I can't believe he's STILL going on about the A4.
The simple truth is that the A4 feels good adn seems to be a better car... until you push it hard. THen the illusion fall apart.
The CTS, otoh, it has a typical overboosted GM steering feel, but despite the numb wheel, it flies through twisties when you whomp on it. And with the 3.6VVT engine, you really can whomp on it hard.
Do a check online to see the new CTS-V being tested at "The Ring" - it growls and screams around the track like a startled animal. And goes like it's possessed - I mean, really, REALLY faster than any sane person could or would drive in the U.S. outside of a racetrack. At the end of the clip, note how it storms up on that white hatchback. That tells you how silly fast it's being driven.
Really - watch it and try to not keep your brain from siezing up. It drives well, perhaps "Cadillac" needs to put a new badge on it, because it's like no Cadillac that I've ever seen before. I guess this would be like buying an apple and it tasting like a strawberry when you bit into it. Something doesn't click in place. Lol.
Yet, there it is. The world really does seem to have turned itself inside-out this time. BMW's got a hell of a lot of worrying to do.
#8559 of 16984 ELLPS missing [pat]
Mar 07, 2007 (1:55 am)
How about adding the Lincoln ELLPS to the board's list? I think it is called the MKZ nowadays.
#8560 of 16984 Re: Wow [plekto]
Mar 07, 2007 (4:15 am)
The CTS-V is not part of this discussion. That said, folks from the Infiniti, Lexus, Audi, Mercedes-Benz and Cadillac camps have been saying for nearly a decade that BMW has lots of worring to do, and that "the end is near". I suppose folks will keep saying that for quite some time to come, however, BMW always seems to have no problem keeping the competition covered, and then some. I understand that there are a lot of folks out there that are constantly pulling for the underdog, and that no matter how good the reigning champ is, they'll always prognosticate a complete fall from grace in the very near term future.
My prediction? Not happening any time soon. Competition is a good thing. Competition improves the breed. BMW loves competition, thrives on it, feeds off of it, and contiually does what it can to both raise the bar from a performance perspective AND cater to its fans who could care less about the sporting nature of their cars. Worry? Nah. Keeping a sharp eye peeled to figure out where the next battle ground will be? Absolutely.
#8561 of 16984 Re: ELLPS missing [joe131]
Mar 07, 2007 (4:18 am)
I'm really trying to understand how the FWD sled called the MKZ would fit in the ELLPS classification. I mean, is it sporting by Lincoln standards? Ummm, no, I don't think so, I mean, geez, an old Lincoln LS would be able to take that thing apart from a sporting nature. Sporting by ELLPS standards? I'm even more skeptical there.
Sorry, I think the MKZ needs to find another home.