Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#8456 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [shipo]
Mar 05, 2007 (11:22 am)
1. Sorry, but I would rank the opinion of various auto magazines over yours. Since most agree that the CTS is a capable RWD sports sedan I think at this point its pretty much an accepted fact. If you chose to disregard this fact based on your high speed test drive, so be it.
2. The CTS has a sports package (or model) just like BMW and thus your test drive experience may have been affected by what you drove. Since you apparently dont like Cadillacs I doubt this really mattered to you but I thought i would make the point.
3. The current CTS was only considered an also ran once all of its competitors were revamped. It wasnt an also ran compared to the last gen G35, IS, 3 series, A4 or 5 series. The new car has impressed all the journalists that have seen it and most cant wait to test it this summer. Also ran isnt even a consideration.
I can tell by your comments that you are unwilling to give credit where its due to 3 or 5 series competitors so I wont pretend facts will change your position. If you honeslty believe that the IS350 and CTS arent even in the same ballpark with the BMW models than you are not being realistic.
"Series, sorry, the CTS is sorely lacking. "
According to you, but not to those who own or have test driven the car over the last 5 years. In 2004 it beat 6 other luxury sedans in a R&T test. But hey, what do they know? If you said it stinks than it must be so.
#8457 of 16984 Re: You with the strange tastes and priorities...[wale_bate1] [joe131] [wale_bate1] [joe131]
Mar 05, 2007 (11:24 am)
You in Jersey, Joe?
#8458 of 16984 Re: You with the strange tastes and priorities...[wale_bate1] [joe131] [wale_bate1] [joe131] [wale_bate1]
Mar 05, 2007 (11:26 am)
Only 'til dinnertime. After I eat I'm back to Arkansas. But if you come over this afternoon, I'm skipping dinner.
#8459 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... 
Mar 05, 2007 (11:27 am)
The new IS is a pig with forward thrust and isolation chambering as its character references. It doesn't even approach joyous expression unless the sport package is purchased.
Talk about the wrong emphases.
Not a contender, IMO.
#8460 of 16984 Re: You with the strange tastes and priorities...[wale_bate1] [joe131] [wale_bate1] [joe131] [wale_bate1] [joe131]
Mar 05, 2007 (11:28 am)
I'll bet! LOL!
#8461 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [wale_bate1]
Mar 05, 2007 (11:28 am)
Actually, if swine-like, more like a piglet.
#8462 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [circlew]
Mar 05, 2007 (11:32 am)
"I have never driven a CTS and do not plan to even if it had 500 HP and 1.5G in the skid pad and was $10K less than a comparable BMW (read M-Car). All of the other not-so-great factors that apply to the U.S. brand stick very close to home with me. Resale, service, fun factor, looks, etc. "
Maybe you should drive and research the car before trashing it. Just a suggestion but then again you seem to be a CTS expert already so why bother. As for looks, many would argue the 5 series isnt the prettiest car on the road. I think the current CTS and 5 series are OK looking but not great. The new CTS however is great looking and addresses all the styling weaknesses of the current car. As for service, Cadillac always ranks high in dealer satisfaction and I have yet to see BMW at the top of the rankings. Usually Cadillac, Lexus and Jaguar do very well. German dealerships arent known for top notch customer service so I dont get your point. I think if you drove a CTS or STS you would reconsider your "fun factor" hesitation. IN normal service on regular roads I am sure the CTS is more than capable of entertaining you. The car was developed on the Nurburgring track contrary to what Shipo would have you believe.
German cars have better resale but they better do something well considering how much they cost.
People who buy German cars and act like the extra money is for more than brand image are delusional. Sorry, but there is no subsantive reason to pay $10k more for a German luxury car vs a Cadillac or Lexus. German automakers have convinced Americans that their vehicles are worth a hefty premium over other luxury cars when there is nothing to back up this premium in terms of warranty, dealer service, reliability, performance, etc. There was a performance edge at one time but the new Cadillac and Lexus models are erasing that fast. For an example compare the 2008 CTS and C class.
#8463 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [shipo]
Mar 05, 2007 (11:36 am)
"Hmmm, the cost is the cost, pay it or drive something else. Who cares? As for your stated 0.3 second difference, ummm, compared to what? "
I would say the 535 is likely to be slightly faster than the 300hp CTS due to its abundant torque. My point is I wouldnt pay a $5k premium to get a 535 just because is imperceptably faster than the CTS, especially when I like the new CTS' interior better.
#8464 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... 
Mar 05, 2007 (11:38 am)
Clearly anything I say will be discounted by any and all CTS apologists, so I won't even bother going there again..
As for the IS, their corporate executives made all kinds of glowing promises as to what the car was going to be able to do and what you'd be able to do with it.
Then the car hit the streets. Ugh. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and so I won't go there. That said, my (then) eight and eleven year old children couldn't get comfortable in the back seat with me in front, and I'm only 5'8", meaning to me that the IS is only a sedan in name. Once under way the isolation from the road was so pronounced that I couldn't "feel" where the limits of the car were and as such, the car felt very dangerous to push anywhere near the limits. Then there is the whole manual transmission thing. If you're going to promote your car as a 3-Series beater, you damn well better offer a manual gearbox. Infiniti tried that back in what, 2002? At least they learned their lesson.
So, comparing a Gen2 IS350 to the now defunct 330i, the BMW was able to comfortably accommodate my family, it had a very communicative suspension (in spite of the RFTs) that completely blew the Lexus suspension out of the water, and it has a wonderful 6-Speed manual gearbox instead of some mind numbing slushbox. Given these criteria, the IS really isn't even close.
#8465 of 16984 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... 
Mar 05, 2007 (11:41 am)
"My point is I wouldnt pay a $5k premium to get a 535 just because is imperceptably faster than the CTS, especially when I like the new CTS' interior better."
You actually like the CTS interior? And you accuse me of being biased. I will admit one thing here, while the exterior of the new CTS is still as butt ugly as the old one, the interior is MUCH improved. Still doesn't do it for me though.