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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 846 of 1609

#8448 of 16087 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [shipo] by 1487

Mar 05, 2007 (11:44 am)

Replying to: shipo (Mar 05, 2007 7:00 am)
Based on your posts I would assume you are an avid BMW fan. First of all the current CTS (and many other RWD vehicles) is very close to the 5 in terms of handling, especially if you're talking about the V. I see that your perceptions of CAdillac are stuck somewhere in the 1990s but most of the press and those who follow the industry realize Cadillac is capable of building sporty RWD sedans. If you think the current or next CTS will be an also ran than you dont know much about the car at all.
 
The 535 better be fast when you consider how much it costs. Sure it will be fastest in class, but how much will you pay to get that extra .3secs in the quarter mile?

#8449 of 16087 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [circlew] by 1487

Mar 05, 2007 (11:49 am)

Replying to: circlew (Mar 05, 2007 9:04 am)
"I can't expect anything unique coming from the Catera family line. Hopefully, they kill it off soon. "
 
A new CTS is coming out in august with a 300hp DI 3.6 V6, AWD and 6 speed auto. The car sold well so your contention that the car was "off the mark" is somewhat baseless. The CTS didnt outsell cars like the 3 series because it only has two three engines and one body style. COnsidering the lack of depth in its model lineup the car did well and it increased in sales from 2002 through 2005 topping out at close to 60K units I believe.

#8450 of 16087 Sales can... by wale_bate1

Mar 05, 2007 (12:07 pm)

equal success.
 
Volume, however, is no indicator of greatness. Lexus sells a whole lot of the ES; personally, I'd rather shove my head up a dead goat's butt than be stuck in an ES...
 
CTS is a crossover, IMO. It prices against a 3, but sizes against a 5. Way too big for my tastes, as has become the 3.
 
When we were talking E39 (especially 2003), the 5 was worth taking along the extra bulk, IMO, if for nothing else than just to look at.

#8451 of 16087 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [1487] by shipo

Mar 05, 2007 (12:08 pm)

Replying to: 1487 (Mar 05, 2007 11:44 am)
"Based on your posts I would assume you are an avid BMW fan."
 
There are fans and then there are fans. Personally I would have no problem buying a competitor, IF, they built a better and more enjoyable car. Case in point, Lexus hyped the Gen2 IS as a better 3-Series. Went there, drove it, walked away shaking my head. Sorry, not even close, rather have a G35.
 
"First of all the current CTS (and many other RWD vehicles) is very close to the 5 in terms of handling, especially if you're talking about the V."
 
The "V" is a factory tuner special and for the purposes of this discussion, completely irrelevant. As for the current CTS being very close to the handling of the current 5-Series, don't be ridiculous. I've driven both, several times, and the base non-SP 5-Series will easily keep up with the best a CTS has to offer. Add the SP to the 5-Series and the CTS is left in the dust.
 
"But wait!" You cry, "The specs indicate that they're virtually the same." Uh-huh. Maybe on a glass smooth road with nary a single inch deviation for the next 100 miles. However, put them both on real roads and it's "Bye-bye CTS."
 
"I see that your perceptions of CAdillac are stuck somewhere in the 1990s but most of the press and those who follow the industry realize Cadillac is capable of building sporty RWD sedans."
 
Ummm, please show me where I said that weren't capable of building sporty RWD sedans. Compared to a Honda Accord, yes, the CTS is sporty, compared to either a 3-Series or a 5-Series, sorry, the CTS is sorely lacking.
 
"If you think the current or next CTS will be an also ran than you dont know much about the car at all."
 
Are you suggesting that I bow to your superior automotive knowledge? Sorry, no thanks.
 
"The 535 better be fast when you consider how much it costs. Sure it will be fastest in class, but how much will you pay to get that extra .3secs in the quarter mile?"
 
Hmmm, the cost is the cost, pay it or drive something else. Who cares? As for your stated 0.3 second difference, ummm, compared to what?
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#8452 of 16087 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [1487] by circlew

Mar 05, 2007 (12:13 pm)

Replying to: 1487 (Mar 05, 2007 11:49 am)
I have never driven a CTS and do not plan to even if it had 500 HP and 1.5G in the skid pad and was $10K less than a comparable BMW (read M-Car). All of the other not-so-great factors that apply to the U.S. brand stick very close to home with me. Resale, service, fun factor, looks, etc.
 
When I think about the top of the U.S. Auto Manufacturers, I look over and see Mt. Everest in the rest of the world! Trucks are still OK but watch out for those mountains!
 
Just my personal experience talking here.
 
About the only car that is made by a U.S. name I would buy would be a C6 'Vette because of heritage, fun factor and resale.
 
Regards,
OW

#8453 of 16087 You with the strange tastes and priorities...[wale_bate1] by joe131

Mar 05, 2007 (12:15 pm)

Replying to: wale_bate1 (Mar 05, 2007 12:07 pm)
Call me a pervert if you want.
Ok, I own both a Lexus ES and a dead goat. C'mon over, I gotta see it to believe you.

#8454 of 16087 Re: You with the strange tastes and priorities...[wale_bate1] [joe131] by wale_bate1

Mar 05, 2007 (12:19 pm)

Replying to: joe131 (Mar 05, 2007 12:15 pm)
Zat mean you're giving the ES away?
 
I get stuck in either an ES or RX whenever my services are due. Can't stand them personally. Make me feel totally disconnected from the road.
 
Diff'rent strokes, to a certainty...

#8455 of 16087 Re: You with the strange tastes and priorities...[wale_bate1] [joe131] [wale_bate1] by joe131

Mar 05, 2007 (12:21 pm)

Replying to: wale_bate1 (Mar 05, 2007 12:19 pm)
No, but I'll offer to stick you in it or let you stick your head in the other.

#8456 of 16087 Re: Coming to a dealer near you this spring... [shipo] by 1487

Mar 05, 2007 (12:22 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Mar 05, 2007 12:08 pm)
1. Sorry, but I would rank the opinion of various auto magazines over yours. Since most agree that the CTS is a capable RWD sports sedan I think at this point its pretty much an accepted fact. If you chose to disregard this fact based on your high speed test drive, so be it.
 
2. The CTS has a sports package (or model) just like BMW and thus your test drive experience may have been affected by what you drove. Since you apparently dont like Cadillacs I doubt this really mattered to you but I thought i would make the point.
 
3. The current CTS was only considered an also ran once all of its competitors were revamped. It wasnt an also ran compared to the last gen G35, IS, 3 series, A4 or 5 series. The new car has impressed all the journalists that have seen it and most cant wait to test it this summer. Also ran isnt even a consideration.
 
I can tell by your comments that you are unwilling to give credit where its due to 3 or 5 series competitors so I wont pretend facts will change your position. If you honeslty believe that the IS350 and CTS arent even in the same ballpark with the BMW models than you are not being realistic.
 
"Series, sorry, the CTS is sorely lacking. "
 
According to you, but not to those who own or have test driven the car over the last 5 years. In 2004 it beat 6 other luxury sedans in a R&T test. But hey, what do they know? If you said it stinks than it must be so.

#8457 of 16087 Re: You with the strange tastes and priorities...[wale_bate1] [joe131] [wale_bate1] [joe131] by wale_bate1

Mar 05, 2007 (12:24 pm)

Replying to: joe131 (Mar 05, 2007 12:21 pm)
You in Jersey, Joe?

Messages Page 846 of 1609

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