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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 799 of 1609

#7978 of 16087 ... by plekto

Jan 27, 2007 (12:26 am)

I suspect that the number of peole who drive manuals or wish to is the same as it was in the 60s and 70s - about 25-30%. But after decades of a 95/5% or worse availability by the auto makers - we get skeweed results.
 
For instance, Honda ships sometihng like a 80/20 split for manual Fits in the U.S. and guess which ones are always unobtainium due to insane waiting lists? Right - the manual.
 
Same with Mercedes - the local dealer, one of the largest in California, said that anything manual is gone in 48 hours - usually for full MSRP with no haggling.
 
So its not surprizing that they are finally listening. That 20-30% that realy want one if they can find one - that's more cars than Mercedes can manage to even sell - so it's good for them to offer it. Not a single 2006 Mercedes or Cadillac CTS was left in California 8-10 weeks after the 2007s came in. All gobbled up.

#7979 of 16087 Re: ... [plekto] by m1miata

Jan 27, 2007 (4:54 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Jan 27, 2007 12:26 am)
Could it be FWD doesn't feel as good as RWD with a stick? Just a thought.
 
I just don't see sticks much anywhere at all. One time at the Nissan dealer, I asked to see a stick, and they had not a single one. Plenty and I mean plenty of cars in stock, but all were automatics.
 
I have never owned a car with a paddle shifter. I could see that on some country roads or going downhill, it may be better to shift the auto, but like I said, never owned one. To me the shifting is better with a RWD car. And I feel more in control going downhill with a RWD car.
-Loren

#7980 of 16087 Re: ... [plekto] by jtla

Jan 27, 2007 (5:33 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Jan 27, 2007 12:26 am)
I suspect that the number of peole who drive manuals or wish to is the same as it was in the 60s and 70s - about 25-30%. But after decades of a 95/5% or worse availability by the auto makers - we get skeweed results.
 
Good point. I think it is sort of "chicken and egg". Was it because less manuals were available so people were "forced" to buy automatics? Or, was it because less people were buying manuals so few were stocked by dealers?
 
Back in 1987 when I purchased my first new car, I wanted a Toyota Celica with stick, but none available. Living in LA, I could not survive without a ride (old car was totaled). I settled for an automatic. 20 years later, manuals have become an "endangered species", especially in the luxury or near-luxury segment.

#7981 of 16087 Re: ... [m1miata] by nkeen

Jan 27, 2007 (6:14 pm)

Replying to: m1miata (Jan 27, 2007 4:54 pm)
The opposite in the UK and Europe -- not many automatics. Too expensive, rob performance on a lower powered car and they hurt mileage -- a consideration at $7/gallon. Also, in the UK, you can't drive a manual unless you've passed your driving test in one.

#7982 of 16087 Porsche by simeve

Jan 28, 2007 (4:30 pm)

Just a question for you guys. Given that the IS, G and 3 series now deliver 300hp plus lots of options for up to 50k (except for the bmw), is it possible that the landscape has changed and one no longer has to look at the Porsche for perfomance. I noted that the 911 Carrera, for example, has an MSRP of 72k, this is the base price with no options at all and has 325hp, you can get the G and the IS fully loaded for 20k less. Do you guys see a trend goinng forward that Porsche could be in trouble here. What are your thoughts or am I being too optimistic

#7983 of 16087 Re: Porsche [simeve] by merc1

Jan 28, 2007 (4:38 pm)

Replying to: simeve (Jan 28, 2007 4:30 pm)
This is a classic case of having to look beyond the "numbers" or "stats".
 
No sedan from any one of those makes can come close to the sheer thrill of driving a 911 nor can they match it in performance. Also, if you're going to throw in some track time the Porsche will beat those sedans silly.
 
Marketwise very few people looking at a 911 are going to "settle" for a mere sedan, especially an entry-level one, no matter how brilliant they are (335i). It is really a joke to compare a Lexus of any kind to a Porsche. Infiniti won't get the GT-R and the G35 coupe is about as close to a 911 as you can get from Infiniti, and that ain't close at all.
 
A BMW M3...uh...somewhat of a contest, but still no enough of one for Porsche to be concerned. This will change slightly when the new M3 arrives, but just as it does the 2008 911 is due to arrive with a new DSG-style tranny and an upped hp rating of 380hp standard.
 
In short, yes you're being way too optimistic, Porsche has absolutely, categorically nothing to worry about from any ELLPS.
 
M

#7984 of 16087 Re: Porsche [merc1] by nyccarguy

Jan 28, 2007 (4:47 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Jan 28, 2007 4:38 pm)
Bravo merc1. Well said!

#7985 of 16087 Re: Porsche [simeve] by louiswei

Jan 28, 2007 (5:37 pm)

Replying to: simeve (Jan 28, 2007 4:30 pm)
is it possible that the landscape has changed and one no longer has to look at the Porsche for perfomance.
 
I'll let habitat1 to handle this one...
 
 

#7986 of 16087 Re: Porsche [merc1] by fedlawman

Jan 28, 2007 (6:04 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Jan 28, 2007 4:38 pm)
"This is a classic case of having to look beyond the "numbers" or "stats".
 
Well said merc1.
 
If I could elaborate, the main reason why these sedans can never compare to a 911 is primarily because they weigh 500 lbs more and have more than 1 foot longer wheelbase.
 
The 911 is a go-cart compared to these 4-door leviathans.

#7987 of 16087 Re: Porsche [fedlawman] by merc1

Jan 28, 2007 (10:34 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Jan 28, 2007 6:04 pm)
If I could elaborate, the main reason why these sedans can never compare to a 911 is primarily because they weigh 500 lbs more and have more than 1 foot longer wheelbase.
 
Correct. I guess I should have said that you have to look deeper into the numbers or at different stats other than hp.
 
M

Messages Page 799 of 1609

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