Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#7566 of 16087 Re: BMWs are over-rated [louiswei]
Jan 05, 2007 (8:40 am)
"So base on that, how should we categorize the ELLPS segment? If comparing TL to 335i is apples to oranges then one of them can't belong in this segment right?"
I was commenting on the previous poster's analysis that the 335i cost $10k more than the TL-S as if there isn't a fundamental difference between these cars. There is.
Does that mean they aren't both "ELLPS"? I'm not necessarily suggesting that. But you've already admitted that - other than straight line accleeration - you don't really care about the "P" in performance. That's fine, but that shouldn't be extrapolated into some objective conclusion that one is a better value than the other becuase it's cheaper, when in fact, it offers far less "P". A better value (objective) would be a car with similar or better attributes at a lower price. A better choice (subjective) is what works for you. Or me.
IMO, the TL-S and IS350 are much more directly comparable than either of those are to the 335i. But even that's IMO and I know some that would claim the IS shouldn't even be in this list because it can't seat 4 full size adults comfortably. So everybody has their priorities. I just think the term "better value" is being overused in this forum.
P.S. In the early 1990's, friends of ours (both lawyers) chose to buy a bigger house in a high end Baltimore neighborhood for $425k instead of a smaller house in a high end DC neighborhood for $650k. They justified it repeatedly as "You get a better value in Baltimore". Today, their Baltimore house is worth $800k and the one in DC would go for $2+ million. So which really was the better "value"?
#7567 of 16087 Re: BMWs are over-rated [habitat1]
Jan 05, 2007 (9:14 am)
Did I mention "value" any where in my previous post? Let me check, hmm...Not exactly. Value only appeared when I was quoting from your previous post.
That's not my point, the point is you are saying that TL-S to 335i is not an "apples to apples" comparison but at the same time they are in the same class. If we can't compare 2 cars from the same class as "apples to apples" then what else can we accomplish here?
IMO, the TL-S and IS350 are much more directly comparab
According to your logic, one is FWD and another is RWD, end of comparison here. On the other hand TL-S offers manual tranny but because it's FWD so not comparable to the Bimmer. Now my question is, what exactly is TL's role here? Maybe it's time to remove all none-RWD and none-automtic entries here and let 3er, G35, IS250 and CTS fight it out. Oh BTW yeah, because of the lack of power, let's remove the IS250 as well...
#7568 of 16087 Re: Buyers Remorse [louiswei]
Jan 05, 2007 (9:46 am)
In my opinion, handling is the only advantage the bmw has over the tl. Most important to me is reliability. However, the tl does handle very good, has plenty of power and a lot more goodies that are standard. Hands down, the tl is the much better value.
#7569 of 16087 Re: Buyers Remorse [frisconick]
Jan 05, 2007 (9:50 am)
Handling and gobs more power. There's a power gulf of about 60 hp (320 hp to 260 hp).
Value wise the TL is great. Just as a Mcdonald's value meal is consistently cheaper than a Ruth's Chris lunch. You get fed no matter what.
#7570 of 16087 Re: Buyers Remorse [frisconick]
Jan 05, 2007 (9:54 am)
I owned an 03' G35 and currently own an 06' TL that I plan to trade in in the next few days for an 07' G35. There is no comparison between these cars, the G35 is a different beast. I feel like I went from a care free kid when driving the G35 to a middle aged wuss whilst driving the TL. I got caught up in the TL hub bub and the "deal" but in the end I made a bad mistake and bought a car that is uninspiring and bland. I assume that is how some BMW owners feel about the G35 as well and I respect that. My two cents.
#7571 of 16087 Re: Buyers Remorse [blueguydotcom]
Jan 05, 2007 (10:01 am)
I thought new tl's had 286 hp and the 335 and 300? I could be wrong.
#7572 of 16087 Re: Buyers Remorse [frisconick]
Jan 05, 2007 (10:02 am)
I almost bought a G35 coupe, so I do know what you guys are talking about. I test drove the G 3 times.
#7573 of 16087 Re: Buyers Remorse [frisconick]
Jan 05, 2007 (10:18 am)
He's base TL and dyno 335i's HP values.
Yes. According to Acura and BMW, TL-S and 335i have 286 and 300 HP, respectively.
#7574 of 16087 Re: Buyers Remorse [louiswei]
Jan 05, 2007 (10:22 am)
He said TL, not TL-S and the 335i makes more than 300 hp. Haven't seen a dyno yet that shows less than 320. That's a major gulf.
#7575 of 16087 Re: BMWs are over-rated [louiswei]
Jan 05, 2007 (10:38 am)
"According to your logic, one is FWD and another is RWD, end of comparison here."
Come on, I seriously doubt that given your driving preferences, you could personally tell the difference between FWD and RWD from behind the wheel. You bought 18" tires on a non-sport suspensioned, slushbox IS350 because they were "must haves" from an aesthetic standpoint. You are admittedly not a "driving enthusiast". The only time I find the TL's FWD to be a detriment is in spirited driving. But I would find the IS slushbox a detriment all the time.
I think the automatic TL and IS350 are more comparable because both emphasize "L" more than "P" in terms of gadgets, electronics and appointments and offer Japnaese "no-fuss" reliability.
To clarify: I'm not saying that any of these cars can't be compared to one another for features attirbutes and price. But at least three straight posts following your response credit one car or another with being the "better value" as if that is an objective metric that everyone should be able to agree on. It's not. That's my point and I'll give up beating a dead horse if it's still not clear.