Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#7358 of 16087 Re: And.. it is.. [rockylee]
Dec 29, 2006 (6:59 am)
"Saabs have as much performance if not more performance than a Acura TL"
Are you drunk?
Back in 2004, I test drove everything remotely in the ELLPS category including Volvo and Saab. When I was back in the market for a convertible last year, I also retried the Saab 9-3 Convertivble. A friend of mine is the general counsel of Saab Aerospace NA and would have been able to get me a spectacular deal, had I been interested. I should have suspected that would not be the case, since he and his wife drive an Acura and Lexus.
As much as I would have liked to have been impressed, the Saab driving dynamics were closer to our 1996 Isuzu Trooper than the 2004 TL 6-speed I bought. I won't rip each and every aspect of it, but just try driving a manual transmission Saab and tell me it bears any resemblence to the crisp short throw of the TL or 3 series and I will have the guys from AA pick you up immediately.
One things for sure, as much as the hard tops have some issues, you don't ever want to get zesty with one of their convertibles. It's right up there with the Toyota Solara. Or should I say, down there.
Saab deserves a lot of credit in certain areas. Their safety engineering is right up there, if not above, Volvo's. They are refreshingly consistent with their unconventional style. They actually seem to have decent reliability, as our neighbor has been milking an early 1990's model for close to 200,000 miles. I would even give the the ticket to enter the ELLPS forum. But, unfortunately, they are a decade behind in serious driving dynamics and performance. I wouldn't have picked any 2005 model offerings over my former 1995 Nissan Maxima SE 5-speed in that area.
Dec 29, 2006 (8:36 am)
I am going to respond with just this one post...
I would like to mention that everything I said is IMO, and please don't take it personal. Also it's funny that how many people would love to tell me how to spend MY $40K on MY ideal car.
First of all, I don't like aftermarket rims, they just don't look right with the car. Had them on my previous Honda Accord but much prefer the stock one. As for the FF miles, not everyone has them (at least not that much) as you, blueguy, so it is naive to assume everyone can do what you do. It also doesn't make sense to assume other people have the same lifestyle as you so it'll be great if we can all respect other people's decision once a while.
As for habitat1, I understand I was comparing a stripped IS350 to a semi-loaded 335i. However, I said not just once, I wasn't comparing them equipment to equipment I was merely comparing my ideal IS350 to my ideal 335i. If we can't get pass this point then the discussion can't move forward.
For all y'all BMW people, help me out here, what are my options if my "Must Have" includes:
Other colors besides red, white and black
The sales guy told me in order to get all those on the 335i I'd have to get one with Sports + Premium + Comfort Access + Auto + Metallic. That's how I come up with the $10K difference. I understand a 335i configured this way has more goodies than a stripped IS350 (like HID, auto turning head light, sports suspension, etc). However, those aren't that real important to me. If I can get my "must haves" without them for a cheaper price I'd love to do so. But as far as I know that's not possible on the 335i. Right now I am open up to all suggestions so please, entertain me.
Let's keep in mind, my "must haves" and "don't really cares" might be dramatically different than yours. However, I am building this car to satisfy one person, and that's me. Many of you will have different priorities but that's none of my business and frankly I don't really care.
Habitat1, to answer your question why am I not in a TL. Actually when I was in the market I had only 3 cars on my list: IS350, 330i and TL. The TL was actually the front runner until I test drove the IS350 then it's all over. I might not be an enthusiast but I like IS' light gas paddle and more powerful engine. I am a hardcore Honda fan (first car Acura Legend, second car Honda Accord) so I prefer TL's interior layout and steering. However, the comfort access, the engine and many other goodies the IS has to offer just make them incomparable IN MY BOOK. Also, even though not the biggest factor but I would love to have RWD on a $35K car. By the way, the TL comes with standard 17" and the 18" option (remember, must have) costs about $2.5K if I remember correctly.
Anyhow, that's why I am not in a TL right now. You may not understand or agree with my decision but it's not like I didn't do my homework.
I'd have to say that I agree with you that I am not your typical "P" buyer nor the typical "L" buyer. I guess that's how I end up with the IS350 since it is somewhat like an oddball in this group anyway . I think if I am the "P" buyer I'll be driving either G35 or 330i. On the other hand, if I am the "L" buyer than I should end up with either ES350 or C350.
#7360 of 16087 Re: Manual BMW Question [jensb]
Dec 29, 2006 (8:42 am)
Can you elaborate on switching from Sirius to XM on the 335.
I am coming off an Acura TL lease in a few weeks and am addicted to XM (blame it on O&A). I'm trying to choose between an '07 G35 and the 335. I'm struggling with the decision (as is evidenced by this forum), but one of the things swaying the G35 in the decision, was that I could get "built-in" XM with the vehicle.
I asked the BMW salesperson about switching the Sirius module and whether the audio head unit would interface with XM. He said no, but didn't seem to know what he was talking about.
If I can get XM built into the 335, that just may sway my decision.
#7361 of 16087 Re: IIHS Saab 9-3 and 9-5 Crash tests [shipo]
Dec 29, 2006 (8:49 am)
"Like it or don't, Saabs are not now, nor have they ever been considered "Performance" cars by most driving enthusiasts. "
I'm fairly sure that there are several rally drivers (Eric Carlsson, e.g.) who would disagree with your statement... Although the "...not now,..." may be more true than not? Since the demise of the 9-3 hatchback, I've kinda stopped following Saab.
I'm a Saab fan and believe the marque belongs here. Whether there's that much to discuss, however... I have wonderfully fond memories of the Saabs my family drove in the '70s, so much so that when we were expecting child #1, to avoid a minivan or SUV (hey, I was too cool for the former and practical for the latter. Well, I was...)I steered the evil wife to the Saab 900s hatchback. For 6.5 years and ~85,000 miles, wonderful choice. Even with the somewhat loose 5 speed stick. But I knew she was safe, tha hatch offered SUV practicality with very good mpg. Looked good too.
Come '04 and it's time for me to get a new car (evil wife had graduated from the Saab to the Lexus RX300 two years earlier, of course) I considered the new 9-3. Handsome devil, felt Saab-ish enough but compared to the TL? Sorry, Trollhattan. Maybe next time...
#7362 of 16087 Re: Blueguydotcom [blueguydotcom]
Dec 29, 2006 (8:58 am)
What in the wide-wide-world-of-sports would possess you to do such a thing?
Note: Your air fare is NOT free, it may not require any cash, or only a little cash, but man this is a waste of FF miles.
Business class is quite nice and you may get to nap on board, but you will hardly arrive in Munich feeling well rested.
You will, with most carriers, arrive in Munich in the morning. Coming from California, you would know better than I when you would arrive; but, I urge you to spend some time in Munich.
I urge you to spend a few days driving your new car both in Munich and down the autobahn (south) to Garmisch and Füssen to see the Neuschwanstein castle, back toward Garmisch taking time to go up he highest mountain of Germany - the Zugspitze and ultimately back to Munich to enjoy the sites and sounds of one of Germany's most desirable and friendly to Americans cities.
Munich has one of the best restaurants IN THE WORLD, Tantris, indulge. The experience of Restaurant Tantris is nothing short of a phenomenal dinner, one of the best on any continent, period. I'd go to Munich just for this meal, rent a BMW from Budget or Hertz, spend a night or two in the Munich Park Hilton or the Kempinski Hotel Vier Jahreszeiten or the Bayerischer Hof (my personal favorite.)
Furthermore, if buying a BMW, take the tour of the new BMW world center, the BMW museum, visit at least one beer hall (hmm, the Hofbräuhaus perhaps) and enjoy an old world yet modern city for a couple of days.
Perhaps there is a return flight to the west coast that you could catch after going from the Munich airport to the BMW world center. My experience is that the return flights (to the US) leave between 11 AM and 3 PM, it just seems too tight, too fraught with possibilities for missed connections, traffic issues and jet lag "blackout."
I have been to Munich and the surrounding areas dozens of times (most recently Sept/Oct 2005), take my word for it, please, don't squander a trip to Munich to get a new BMW and not delve deeply into this Bavarian treasure.
Dec 29, 2006 (9:09 am)
If the year had not somehow gotten to be 2006, I would agree Saabs are entry-level LPS cars.
They have been passed by, unfortunately. They are, IMHO, but a spec in the rear view mirror of the rest of the el-LPS entrants.
And I'm not one of those who says if it ain't RWD or AWD it doesn't count either. I can see that an FWD car (just not this family's offspring) could qualify. The Acura and I would suspect Volvo certainly demonstrate this.
Saabs -- to me, at least -- used to be in the "near premium" or perhaps near-LPS class alongside Audi and Volvo, to name two Europeans. Audi clearly has moved forward and certainly seems to offer cars in the el-LPS class and the LPS class (and even the HELV class.)
Saab? Not any more.
Just another opinion. I don't actually dislike Saabs, in fact I look for reasons to like them, to include them when I am shopping.
But they seemed to have stopped moving forward some time ago -- hmm? possibly something to do with the time period when they were acquired by GM? Of course, Volvo too, could be thought of or could HAVE been (past tense) thought of to be on a similar trajectory, on a similar bubble. Somehow they managed to move forward almost in spite of Ford's influence.
I'd certainly not kick a Volvo out of bed for eating crackers -- but Saab is no longer a member of the club from where I sit. Sorry.
Dec 29, 2006 (9:35 am)
I love that a compass is important (maybe it's from my travel schedule but N-S-E-W is pretty easy to discern for me) but xenon headlights aren't.
To each his own. But I agree with habitat, the comparison is unrealistic. He expects the BMW to have a digital compass but not the Lexus (which a navi in the IS350 would give him the beloved digital compass).
He wants to claim there's a 10k difference. But comparably equipped the gulf is much, much smaller. Clever shoppers can actually reverse the gulf.
#7365 of 16087 Re: Okay... [louiswei]
Dec 29, 2006 (9:42 am)
I certainly am not telling you how to spend your money. But the discussion, an interesting one, is centering around the manufacturer selection process based on option packages. That is what habitat1 was saying. You also agree you are not a typical car buyer, neither am I.
My first criteria is not the options and packages, while you are making it sound like it's the options first, car second. That is what is generating the discussion.
#7366 of 16087 Re: Blueguydotcom [markcincinnati]
Dec 29, 2006 (10:06 am)
I've been to Europe several times. I was just there in April. Every time I fly to Europe I follow the same pattern - stay up all night the day/night before. Fly out tired. Stay up for the connection and then pop a sleeping pill and wake up landing in Munich. If I do quick turnaround I'll fly coach.
I've driven the autobahn in a new bimmer. Been all through europe in my e90. I put over 1400 miles on the car going through Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy and France.
Personally, and I'm of German heritage with lots of family in Germany, I couldn't get out of there fast enough. Some people dig on Germany. Not me. I always kid that I get nervous when I see two Germans talking to each other...you never know which disadvantaged group they're plotting against.
My plan is sound - if I go that route. The plane arrives at 8 am. No bags, so I would hop the trains immediately to the delivery center. Pick up the car by 9:30 and have it at the dropoff by 10 am. Be back at the airport before noon. The latest flight out is a 3:50 pm from Munich that arrives in San Diego at 11:40. I'm in bed at midnight.
#7367 of 16087 Re: Okay... [kdshapiro]
Dec 29, 2006 (10:11 am)
Blue, I don't need to get Navi to get the digital compass, that's standard on the IS but not 335i as well as the auto-dimmed mirror and homelink. I think it's ridiculous for Lexus not offering HID as standard but to me it's equally ridiculous that those aren't standard on the 335i.
I don't think to say options first car second is fair. To me I can go either with the IS or the 335i. Since I'll be happy with either "car" it is nature that the next step is to find the "options" that I want. If you don't understand what I am saying just look at the options as a tie-breaker.