Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
Dec 05, 2006 (7:20 am)
Well, this I know. A 2004 RX-8 is closer to $12K if you shop around, but first year cars are problematic. $15K can be had with some haggling on a 2005, though. Los Angeles is great that way - most everything sells for low trade-in(but dealers give you auction for trade-in as a result)
I searched nationwide on three databases and found *one* S500 Coupe from the mid 90s with a manual transmission - evidently brought over from Europe or something and converted to U.S. specs. Just got me thinking is all.
The maintainence is going to be rough on any large Mercedes, especially 9 years old. I even found a local dealer who was "willing" to let me have a 2001 ML320 for $9K(?) due to the horrid reliability. I passed, of course. I even looked at a couple of older 928s, but they are very very pricey to maintain. And 10-12 years old is more than pushing it for electrical and emissions equipment.
The T5 and R Volvos are only about 1-2K apart in value and they've been making them since oh, 1998 or so. I've had a sporty Volvo in the past and it was fun, but FWD and 200+HP isn't my piece of cake, either, given how Volvos have noticeable torque-steer when the turbo kicks in. Finding a S80 from Europe/Canada with stickshift is unobtainium as well. Maybe one every six months shows up for sale in the U.S.(only a couple of hundred over a decade were brought over this way via the European delivery program)
The CTS... yeah - $17K was the lowest I could haggle on one last week, but I just... I've been burnt by GM "quality" so many times... My last pre-Ford/still Swedish designed and built Volvo was bulletproof by comparison. Shoot, my dad just spent $750 on his old Buick for electrical. Now, it's been very reliable up until now, but the electrical/sensors on the engine are starting to go at only 8 years old. 3 coil packs, a new MAF, and a couple of other minor things.
The WRX is out. Sat in one and it was just nasty. Very much love/hate ergonomics in it. The Forester was fine, though. I just worry about reliability is all.(though my cousin's new WRX seems to be perfectly fine - and fast as stink)
BMW - my knowledge ends at about 1995.
Now if only something like the Celica existed with RWD, four doors, and had a back seat big enough to fit my 8yr old son. I'd SO love a 350Z if it had a back seat. Looks like it could easily fit one, but the geniuses at Nissan decided to fill the rear in with empty space/a shelf the size of a couple of huge subwoofers instead.
So far the C230/C320 is edging towards the top due to their poor resale value. $12995 asking price at about 5 local dealers for a 2003 coupe. The 230 sedan or 320 coupe is $15K - and that's before haggling.
Concerning the BMW 5 series:
2000 528i $11,376 $12,975 $14,702
Like the price, but how reliable are they? Should I get the V8 model instead(though it seems awfully heavy at 3600+ lbs)
#7104 of 16984 Re: ... [plekto]
Dec 05, 2006 (7:40 am)
"The WRX is out. Sat in one and it was just nasty. Very much love/hate ergonomics in it. The Forester was fine, though. I just worry about reliability is all.(though my cousin's new WRX seems to be perfectly fine - and fast as stink)"
Wow, I like the ergonomics of the STI. It's a big hardcore though. Foresters 2003 and earlier had some reliability issues that were straightened out in 2004. The XT turbo is also as fast as stink.
#7105 of 16984 Re: Sad day.... [plekto]
by kyfdx@Edmunds HOST
Dec 05, 2006 (7:47 am)
If you like Saabs, and you don't have to have all of the luxury options, then a used 9-3 is probably going to be the newest car that meets your qualifiers...
One of my local dealers has an '05 Saab 9-3 Linear for $15,900....
#7106 of 16984 Re: ... [plekto]
Dec 05, 2006 (7:59 am)
"Concerning the BMW 5 series:
2000 528i $11,376 $12,975 $14,702
Like the price, but how reliable are they? Should I get the V8 model instead(though it seems awfully heavy at 3600+ lbs)"
The 2000 E39 is considered to be very reliable with but a few problem areas (ball joints, radiator and water pump) and even those have since been mitigated with replacement parts.
Given that my normal 12,000-15,000 mile commute year (a measure that had been very stable until June of 2005) has been upset (I've driven over 50,000 miles since that point) I'm looking for a 2000 528i 5-Speed with both the Premium Package, Sport Package and "M" interior (sport seats and steering wheel). Cars so equipped typically bottom out at about $14,000 and are very few and far between. The good news is that assuming proper maintenance by the original owner(s), these cars should be good for an easy quarter of a million miles without any significant maintenance dollars.
If/when I find one, the first things I'll be doing to mine will be to go through the front suspension, replace the water pump with a new all-metal one, replace the plastic tanked radiator with an all metal one (assuming this hasn't been done already), flush the cooling and brake systems, fit a set of low dust/dustless brake pads and new rotors, and any other cosmetic items that I find wanting.
Once gone through I figure I can get an easy 150,000 to 200,000 miles with only minimal (meaning scheduled) maintenance and few if any significant repairs.
Regarding the V8, fun though they may be, there is one key element that I'm having a tough time getting over. Even though both the I6 and the V8 engines are have aluminum blocks, the I6 sports steel sleeved cylinder bores while the V8 sports silicone impregnated cylinder bores. While I have no real proof of this, I suspect that the I6 mill will last longer.
Another thing to consider when comparing I6 to V8 engined 5-Series cars is the steering system. On the E34 and E39 models, there wasn't enough room to fit a Rack and Pinion system to the V8 models and as such they have a more conventional Recirculating Ball system. I much prefer the nimbleness of the I6 models due to their lighter weight and their Rack and Pinion steering.
Dec 05, 2006 (8:20 am)
plekto - you're not gonna find much that's more reliable than a subaru. check CR and you'll see the newer Forester and Legacy are tops in reliability.
Of all the cars you mentioned you're gonna get great bang for your buck and hardcore reliability out of the subaru lineup.
I'd avoid BMW like the plague. Fun cars under warranty but I'm having trouble believing anyone would want to own one out of warranty. The horror stories of all my friends, coworkers and family regarding their BMWs. Yikes. Fun cars, just engineered by people who don't give a damn about long term reliability or good parts.
#7108 of 16984 Re: ... [blueguydotcom]
Dec 05, 2006 (2:11 pm)
That Subaru is probably the best reliability bet. The Mazda would probably be next. Then I would jump over to the CTS. I wouldn't trust a Saab 9-3 as far as I could throw it.
The CTS's have had fairly good reliability (except those differentials) as far as their track records. I read about one automatic tranny failure at 120k. You could probably do a little research to see how long the clutches last in the manuals.
Dec 05, 2006 (2:25 pm)
"I'd SO love a 350Z if it had a back seat."
It does, but it is called the Infiniti G35 Coupe...
How about VW Golf R32/GTI? Of course, reliability...
#7110 of 16984 Knock-knock....looking for Santa!
by Karen@Edmunds HOST
Dec 05, 2006 (4:57 pm)
A reporter with a national newspaper is hoping to talk with consumers who have received or are giving a luxury car as a gift for Christmas. Please reply to ctalatiedmunds.com no later than Friday, December 8, 2006 with your daytime contact info.
#7111 of 16984 Volvo S60R - a world class performance sedan
Dec 05, 2006 (7:23 pm)
Wow i was surprised to find that the Volvo S60R belong to this list - Top 10 cars with the lowest drag coefficient -
It's the only sedan to belong on the list. Putting S60R in the same league as Corvette & the very best Porsche in terms of aerodynamics
BMW 3 series comes in at 0.33 while the S60R comes in at 0.29
This put the S60R in a category of its own a super-sport-performance sedan with world-class safety
#7112 of 16984 Re: Volvo S60R - a world class performance sedan [autoedu]
Dec 05, 2006 (7:52 pm)
Splittin' hairs here aren't we?
I did see the MR2 Turbo on that list also. What a fine machine that was.