Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 8:41 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#7019 of 16982 Re: 2007 Acura TL-S [louiswei]
Nov 30, 2006 (1:09 pm)
When the current generation TL came out, what was the price something like 32,000 without the nav? 34 with it? That was a great price point for the time. Same thing goes when the last generation was introduced in 1999 for 28,000. Right now, the closer you get to 40,000 the closer you get to the ES 330, not too mention the remarkedly improved IS. Most people who buy Acura's buy them because of the value that they get in comparison to a Lexus. Therefore, an Acura should be a lot less than a Lexus. At 38,000 it ma be too close to the Lexus.
#7020 of 16982 Re: Price versus quantity/quality-Top 10 Luxury Permance Sedans [piason]
Nov 30, 2006 (1:44 pm)
I think if you plan to drive the car in that much snow, you should consider getting a model that offers 4-Matic all wheel drive.
I believe they offer the C280 and the C350 with the 4-Matic.
Check out the tire rack for the all season tires.
#7021 of 16982 Re: 2007 Acura TL-S [louiswei]
Nov 30, 2006 (2:40 pm)
The TL-S is 2k more than the TL-P. For the extra 2k, you get the RL engine, manual tranny option, S seats, steering wheel and pedals, different exhaust, tail lights and other minor things. Some folks might see that as 2k well spent- others won't.
It has 286 hp which is about 20hp less than the G, 335i and IS 350. I don't expect the TL-S to outrun, outhandle or outperform the G or 335i on a track but am still waiting to see the numbers this thing produces.
Some folks are picking up the TL-S for 36k.
I personally don't have an issue with it so long as you can get a discount on it.
#7022 of 16982 Re: 2007 Acura TL-S [robbieg]
Nov 30, 2006 (2:45 pm)
The TL and ES even at 40k are still two totally different types of FWD vehicles. The TL is a "sporty" FWD sedan and the ES is a ultra luxury boulevard cruiser IMHO.
Folks might cross shop the two at any price point but the driving dynamics of each differentiate the two.
Nov 30, 2006 (3:47 pm)
You know Pat, after I posted my last message last night, I started thinking that we might be wrong after all.
I actually lost some sleep last night thinking about how I might have dismissed the "car that must not be named" a little prematurely. Humor me before you delete this.
We (I) dismissed the MKZ as a non-performance car from a non-luxury marque, and that was that. Last night, I wrote that the MKZ is not worthy because it's based largely on the Mazda6, which is more or less a pedestrian midsize car.
Here's what got me rethinking this - consider the Acura TL. You could argue that the TL is squarly in this segment - FWD yes, but peformance oriented, luxurious, high quality, and from an agreed upon luxury marque.
But consider how much the TL and MKZ have in common. Both are FWD and both share 95% of their DNA with a 5-year old midsize car design (and the Mazda6 and Accord are direct competitors in price, performance, and features). Both marques actually exist in their own little "tweener" band of near-luxury, not actually luxury like M-B, Jaguar, and BMW.
Compare both cars side-by-side, feature for feature, and the MKZ and TL have a lot in common (HP, wheelbase, weight, features, price, etc.).
My conclusion? If the MKZ doesn't belong here, it's only because of Lincoln's heritage as a plush car maker compared to Acura's race heritage. Acura's literature contains detailed specs about the TL's performance features (roll bar diameter, turns lock-to-lock, size and type of brakes, dampeners, etc. while Lincoln literature lacks any specifics. Other than that, the two are pretty close on paper.
One final point - I think perhaps that the base TL no longer belongs here for the same reasons that the MKZ doesn't. Years have marched on and we now have the TL-S - the base TL (which always was a little soft and floaty for my taste) now lacks a manual tranny option. All of the "go-fast" parts like thicker sway bars, 6-speed MT, etc. are all on the TL-S. The base TL is arguably more like a Buick than ever before.
I'm sure many won't agree, but I feel guilty that I've wronged a competent car, and I want to make things right. After a lot more research on my part, the MKZ still isn't my kind of car, but I think it's more car than any of us have given it credit for.
#7024 of 16982 G35 Interior...
Nov 30, 2006 (4:56 pm)
I wish that Infiniti would offer this color interior for the new G35, as they do in Japan. I think that the wood looks fantastic with it. The carpet treatment is interesting as well. I like how they are bringing back the use Japanese art and culture into their design. Reminds me of what they were trying to do with the original Q45.
#7025 of 16982 Re: Okay [fedlawman]
Nov 30, 2006 (5:39 pm)
"Years have marched on and we now have the TL-S - the base TL (which always was a little soft and floaty for my taste) now lacks a manual tranny option. All of the "go-fast" parts like thicker sway bars, 6-speed MT, etc. are all on the TL-S."
Do you think the IS 350 should be excluded as well because it doesn't have a manual tranny option? Yes, it has RWD and 300+hp but I don't think the IS 350 should be excluded much less the base TL. Although FWD, the base TL still has front and rear suspension characteristics of a sport sedan, rack and pinion steering, and a rigid body structure.
The TL also has the "steptronic" transmission. A feature not found on the Lincoln. Personally, I think the steptronic transmission is a joke because it doesn't let you hold a gear for as long as you want- the computer kicks in. Nonetheless it is still there and it is combined with the drive by wire throttle system. All of the aforementioned combined make the base TL a "sporty" FWD sedan.
Rumors about the 4G TL is that it will have 300hp+ and AWD.
#7026 of 16982 whoaaaoo I want that color interior
Nov 30, 2006 (5:50 pm)
drewsrx where did you find the pic? I loved that combo, when my A4 lease experies, I am strongly considering the 07 G35. I was leaning towards the grey leather interior, but after looking at the "burnt orange, brick or marroon" interior, I really hope that they offer if in 2008.
Well, maybe in 08 they'll do it :>)
#7027 of 16982 Re: 2007 Acura TL-S [robbieg]
Nov 30, 2006 (6:04 pm)
"Right now, the closer you get to 40,000 the closer you get to the ES 330, not too mention the remarkedly improved IS. Most people who buy Acura's buy them because of the value that they get in comparison to a Lexus. Therefore, an Acura should be a lot less than a Lexus. At 38,000 it ma be too close to the Lexus".
I can't speak to "most people", but for me and many I know, Acura and Lexus are not as directly competitive as your post suggests, and as such there is no intrinsic need for Acura to be less expensive than Lexus. If my 2004 TL 6-speed were to be crushed by a falling tree tonight, there is still nothing in the entire 2007 Lexus line-up that would get me to stop in their showroom. The closest would probably be the IS350, but its dimunitive back seat and lack of a manual transmission are non-starters. Lexus could sell the ES350 for $20k and, in spite of that being an extraordinary deal, I wouldn't buy it. In 2001, I bought a Honda S2000, in 2005 a Porsche 911S. There is no price that would have gotten me to give the Lexus SC430 a serious look. As ggesg indicated, Lexus is more luxury oriented, Acura is more sport oriented.
The closest we ever came to buying a Lexus was when we were SUV shopping last year. We seriously considered the GX, but ended up in a MDX due to the better 7 passenger functionality and the better on-road handling driving dynamics. The GX would have been less expensive, considering it qualified for a tax writeoff, but once again, didn't quite meet our needs and preferences.
I know of some who have cross shopoped the GS and RL, but in that category, I'd be in a 530i or 550i (6-speed stick of course).
#7028 of 16982 Re: Okay [fedlawman]
Nov 30, 2006 (6:11 pm)
Cheers fedlawman ! From the website.** In fact, it was voted the "Best Luxury Car Interior" by both industry and automotive journalist voters.gee I guess Edmunds journalists need to change their tune*** doesn’t hold anything back in performance, either. It boasts a 263 hp V-6 engine and available Intelligent All-wheel drive system to deliver a smooth, powerful and exciting ride.
**Medium Premium Car class hmmm...Entry level Lux-Perf.sedan class maybe ??
***Ward's 2006 Auto Interiors Show hmm..are they a reputable source to judge car interiors-all those Mercedes fans feel slighted now, what was it the interior looks awful
"…the has one of the most beautiful cabins in its class, miles ahead of Cadillac and Mercedes."****The Detroit News, 2/8/06
fedlawman, Rocky, could anyone please post an interior and exterior image of the vs. the BMW 335i please ? How do you attach images to this forum ?