Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#6636 of 16087 Re: A few things.. [plekto]
Nov 23, 2006 (12:28 pm)
None of these cars are luxury cars. The segment is entry level luxury sport sedans. Manufacturers who make luxury automobiles, these are the bottom of the heap. Last I looked Volvo or Mazda don't make luxury vehicles.
Rebates and incentives will be gone in a few months for 2006 models. It's a pricing anomaly, much like Black Friday. Comparing a 2006 Volvo outgoing model with a new 2007 335i is ludicrous. The 335i is king of the entry level sport sedan. Fastest, most planted, best looking. To expensive? A Camry or Accord is the ticket. I would rather pay $43K for a 335 than whatever for an S60. So would a lot of people I gather.
Of course, the 335i may not be right for you for a variety of reasons, none of which has to do with it's performance, unless you're afraid of it's 4.7 seconds to 60.
One more thing - the TMV price according to Edmunds is on par for the S60 vs 335i. Comparing the consumer ratings however, one is 9.5 the other is 7.7. Can you guess which rating belongs to which car?
I tried to do my car internet purchase. I tried carsdirect.com, I ended up by not using them. I don't consider them to be the authority on pricing.
#6637 of 16087 Re: A few things.. [kdshapiro]
Nov 23, 2006 (1:16 pm)
Yet their prices are legitimate enough. Actually, you can haggle quite a better deal on many of the cars if you want - I just use them as an example of "average" pricing for those who don't want to haggle or drive around.
Of course the BMW is going to be more favorable, but you can't get(still new) 2006 BMW for $26,400. The S60 T5, which isn't even their lowest end model is the same price as a Camry V6. I don't see Mercedes or BMW or Lexus offering those sorts of deals.
And it's NOT "black Friday" - it's a fact of life for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Mistubishi, Mazda, and many others. For 3-4 months out of the year, you can get silly low prices on their leftover stock. That's not one weekend. It's roughly a third of the entire year, and when most sane people buy their new cars.(leases are totally seperate).
As for the S60, it's certainly more luxurious than the others. The original poster wanted a luxury sedan that was sporty and luxurious for under 30K. This was different than the topic of this group, but we replied anyways. It's a higher sert of criteria that he was looking for. And I suspect that the S60 will be a better solution than an A4, as he seemed to want something a bit larger than a crackerbox if he could manage it.
#6638 of 16087 Re: A few things.. [plekto]
Nov 23, 2006 (1:32 pm)
"The S60 T5, which isn't even their lowest end model is the same price as a Camry V6"
Got what you're saying, but would still buy the Camry over the Volvo in a heartbeat.
"I don't see Mercedes or BMW or Lexus offering those sorts of deals."
You never will.
"original poster wanted a luxury sedan that was sporty and luxurious for under 30K."
The Volvo isn't a luxury sedan, like the Accord V6 fully decked out isn't a luxury sedan. If the op was talking 2007 models only it's a totally different picture.
#6639 of 16087 Re: A few things.. [plekto]
Nov 23, 2006 (1:36 pm)
Since you are a short guy, let me add a little bit of normal to large guy perspective. I am 6-2, with a long torso, meaning that most cars have poor headroom or vision for me. The S60 has has a raked roof and I can't see well out of it. The Lexus, 3 series, and the G35 all have similar headroom or vision problems. The A4, C230 and TL all have more headroom and better vision for me.
I have driven an S60 - extensively - from SF to Tahoe and back under all conditions. It is a good car. It has nice seats and even a usable back seat. But it does not perform like the A4 2.0T or the 3 series or the G or .... It does not handle as well as any of those cars and it is not nearly as nimble and it does not have as much midrange usuable torque passing someone going up Highway 50 at 5000 ft as even my 97 Saab 900SE.
But you can go on about E series and 7 series in the ENTRY performance level thread. And you can go on about poor reliability of A4s (directly contradicted by Consumer Repots) and something you made up about engines bays (the S4 has a 4.2 in it so your claims are really bogus). But the reality is that you probably don't really care about helping out a buyer or fairly discussing ENTRY level luxury perfomance cars. You seem to simply want crow about how great your S60 is. Again, all the cars discussed in this car are good cars. Maybe if you tried driving more than one of them, you might see the light. That is, if you can see over the dash.
Nov 23, 2006 (9:04 pm)
Try one with a manual transmission. Then a whole new world opens up
Nov 23, 2006 (11:51 pm)
Is this in response to my post about the G35? I will eventually try a manual version but given how much I disliked the seating space and position, the manual may end up feeling as awful as the one in the A3/A4/GTI/GLI.
Nov 24, 2006 (12:09 am)
I mean a 2006 G35 with manual. The new one also is just.. it hits too many of my "funky"(in a bad way) buttons. Kind of like when I first test drove the (new)VW Beetle. Something felt "off" about it and the ergonomics weren't up to par for the money.
Nov 24, 2006 (8:19 am)
I drove the 06 manual G35. While i prefer the ergonomics of that car, the 07 is a better car in most other ways - better materials, smoother engine, better chassis, way less nvh, attractive exterior. Unfortunately, like the e9x BMWS, the 07 G35 feels a little too buttoned-down and less enthusiastic.
#6644 of 16087 Re: A few things.. [edwardsf]
Nov 24, 2006 (6:05 pm)
it does not have as much midrange usuable torque
that just tells me you weren't driving a T5.
#6645 of 16087 Re: A few things.. [kdshapiro]
Nov 24, 2006 (6:09 pm)
Last I looked Volvo or Mazda don't make luxury vehicles
i agree with you about mazda ... but volvo?? If volvo doesn't make luxury cars, then neither does acura, infiniti, or saab. I'd easily put all of those in the same class as volvo. And I'm not saying your wrong. Maybe none of these are luxury cars ... but then we'd have to change the subject of this discussion.