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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16252 messages,  Last post on Jun 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 631 of 1626

#6295 of 16252 Re: Can I bring up the future "1" last time for a momment [rockylee] by habitat1

Oct 05, 2006 (10:06 am)

Replying to: rockylee (Oct 05, 2006 8:05 am)
"#1 It's an Acura not a BMW, it won't break down. BIG DIFFERENCE !!!!! "
 
Re-check your facts. Honda/Acura have had major problems with their automatic transmissions. Won't admit to more than 2% failures, but 30%+ of the owners of TL's and MDX's we know (4 of 12) have had failures. In one case, two failures. My Acura dealer has replaced more Acura automatics at less than 50,000 miles than he has clutches at 100,000+ miles. I have no particluar reason to believe that the SH-AWD system is doomed to fail at some point. But for me, it doesn't add any value on a SPORT SEDAN, so why take the risk? MDX/RDX are a different animal. This forum is about sport sedans, last time I checked.
 
"#3 SH-AWD enhances handling, not dimishes it."
 
Not in a SPORT SEDAN, as far as I'm concerned.
 
"However with the RDX, it outshines the X3 in handling."
 
Come on Rocky, let's not go through this again. You keep getting in trouble repeating some advertising claim or what an "Acura spokesmouth" tells you.
 
"BMW, has never made a car that could handle quite like the Dodge Stealth."
 
Thank God for that. I actually considered the Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 back in the mid 1990's. At 3,800 lbs, it was about as un-nimble as one could get. I came to my senses and bought a Nissan Maxima that weighed nearly a HALF TON LESS. And then bought a real sports car (Honda S2000) when I could afford to. The Stealth/3000GT were bloated pigs back then, don't start romanticizing about the past in addition to speculating about the future.

#6296 of 16252 Re: Can I bring up the future "1" last time for a momment [rockylee] by louiswei

Oct 05, 2006 (10:35 am)

Replying to: rockylee (Oct 05, 2006 8:05 am)
BMW, has never made a car that could handle quite like the Dodge Stealth
 
Please tell me that above sentence is a joke. A Mitsu 3000GT is already bad enough neverthless a Dodge one. You are giving me goose bumps here, Rocky.
 
A buddy of mine (also my college roommate) has gone from 3000GT to 330ci to most recently Boxster S. He and I both agreed that the handling between 3000GT and the 330ci is like night and day. However, I've never got a chance to drive his Boxster S but he told me it's an improvement from the Bimmer but the difference is no where near the 3000GT/330ci gap.

#6297 of 16252 Mebbe... by pat

Oct 05, 2006 (10:36 am)

...we could stick to the true Entry-Level Performance Sedans? Several people have asked that we do that, so let's give it a shot!
 
BTW, I don't know how the A4 got lost from the list, but I put it back.

#6298 of 16252 Re: Can I bring up the future "1" last time for a momment [louiswei] by kdshapiro

Oct 05, 2006 (10:39 am)

Replying to: louiswei (Oct 05, 2006 10:35 am)
In deference to Pat's request, slightly /ot for one second. The Boxster S unless I'm mistaken, is a mid-engine two seater. Comparing the handling to a 4 seater coupe is not quite apples to apples.

#6299 of 16252 Re: Can I bring up the future "1" last time for a momment [kdshapiro] by louiswei

Oct 05, 2006 (10:48 am)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Oct 05, 2006 10:39 am)
Agreed. It's not fair to compare the handling between Boxster S and 3 coupe. Not just that, the price difference between the 2 also makes them un-comparable. My intention from the previous post is to point out how horrible the 3000GT handles compare to the Bimmer nevertheless the Dodge Stealth.

#6300 of 16252 GM thinks Buick belongs here, too. by robertr

Oct 05, 2006 (11:05 am)

I saw an large ad in the Wall Street Journal the other day for a Buick Lucerne. According to the ad copy, it's a competitor for the Lexus ES350, Acura TL, and Infiniti G35. Apparently because it has a "Northstar V-8". I couldn't believe it - I'm sure it doesn't come in anything except FWD automatic, so maybe the ES350 and TL are targets, but G35? At least they didn't mention BMW.

#6301 of 16252 Re: GM thinks Buick belongs here, too. [robertr] by dandrews1

Oct 05, 2006 (11:23 am)

Replying to: robertr (Oct 05, 2006 11:05 am)
My wife and I went to have a quick lookey at it when they first started showing up on the roads... never got to drive it, so I have no idea how it handles or accelerates.
 
All I can speak to is how it looked.
 
Aside from some cursory BMW 7-series aspirations, I found it rather boring. After you get past the really cool air vents on the side of the bonnet, a la Maserati quattroporte, the rest of the vehicle is kind of ho-hum.
 
I would not feel like a geezer driving any of it's stated competitors (Acura TL, Lexus ES350, Infiniti G35), but I would feel like a geezer driving this.
 
The seams between panels are the closest I have seem on any NA car, and the build quality looks well above GM normal.
 
However, it has two major things going against it:
 
1. It's still a GM - which means it has to be maintained by GM dealers, who I have had extremely bad experiences with in the past (tried all in a 50Km radius from where I live and got bad service everywhere)
2. It has a boring design. It's a warmed over Century, with some angles reminding me of the Acura, but it doesn't look 'right'. The interior is plain, and uninspired.
 
If GM / Buick wants me to buy this car, they have to have more wow-factor. This car is definitely a step in the right direction, and I hope that they do well with it. I fear if nobody buys it, GM will not continue in the same vein, and go back to old habits. It may be too late to save the sinking ship now, though.
 
As always, just my own 2c worth..
 
/DA

#6302 of 16252 Re: GM thinks Buick belongs here, too. [dandrews1] by louiswei

Oct 05, 2006 (11:31 am)

Replying to: dandrews1 (Oct 05, 2006 11:23 am)
Wow, we have gone from M5, M3 and CTS-V to Dodge Stealth and now to Buick Lucerne. How low can we go in this forum guys? Maybe the next one up is the Impala SS since it has enough HP to compete with cars in this segment anyway...
 
 

#6303 of 16252 Re: Can I bring up the future "1" last time for a momment [louiswei] by mariner7

Oct 05, 2006 (11:54 am)

Replying to: louiswei (Oct 05, 2006 5:57 am)
RL, will have a V-10 by then from what I read
  
(cough)bullsh...
 
Acura and Lexus were going to leverage its F1 v10 engines. But F1 only allows v8 now, so I doubt we're going to see v10 from anyone.
 
BTW, Honda and Toyota bring up the rear in F1 now, so why they'd want to advertise their failures is beyond me.

#6304 of 16252 Re: Only one question for this thread.... [rockylee] by edwardsf

Oct 05, 2006 (12:42 pm)

Replying to: rockylee (Oct 03, 2006 10:21 pm)
The following is from fueleconomy.gov. Most drivers here and the auto mags get about 20% worse MPG across the board. This compares the 2006 6 cylinder manuals.
BMW 330ci 20/30 Avg. 24
Cadillac CTS 17/26 Avg. 19
          
 
17 in the city is pretty bad but not too much worse than the G35, C320 and A4 6. Also, the Cadillac is a nasty polluter both in terms of climate change forming pollutants. (Their 8 cylinder engines are much worse of course). GM has been a laggard in efficient fuel saving technology for all but its cheap bottom of the line cars. BMW and Acura are pretty unusual in giving such great 6 cylinder MPG in fast cars.
 
BMW 3 series seem to have two problems. One is reliability, although many 3 series years are average. The only real problem then, is the stigma from the apparent truth that a lot of jerks drive these cars. (Although Expedition and Land Rover drivers seem to top them). Too bad as BMWs are great handling, efficient, fast, good looking cars.

Messages Page 631 of 1626

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