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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

11073 messages,  Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 1:47 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Lexus IS 250, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#61 of 11073 W8 is nice luxury-wise by blueguydotcom May 23, 2002 (9:18 am)
But it's not really a performance sedan. Drive one and then take on a Bimmer or G35. Night and day. VWs are nice inside and good for cruising but their handling's akin to riding a pig in a hurry.
#62 of 11073 W8 - 'not really a performance sedan' by rayainsw May 28, 2002 (6:50 am)
I beg to differ.   While I admit that I am biased (obviously, since I bought one!) I believe that the W8 is really a performance sedan.   I test drove the G35, and several BMWs (and a few others) before making my final choice. I suppose the term ‘performance sedan’ could be defined in any number of ways. For me, the W8 offers everything I want – and nothing I don’t.   (Isn’t that a recent Nissan ‘tag line’?)   Take straight line acceleration, for instance. VW literature quotes 0 – 60 in 6.5 sec. To me, this is pretty quick for a 4 door sedan. My fearless (?) prediction of future test acceleration numbers is: 0 – 60 in 6.5 sec., as VW claims. And a quarter mile in about 15.0 at 94 / 95. I base this on a number of things. For instance, in the May 2000 Car and Driver comparison that included the Lincoln LS8 Sport and the Audi A6 2.7TT, the Audi tested had virtually identical curb weight as the W8, identical final drive, wheel / tire size and Tiptronic. The HP / TQ for this Audi were 250 / 258. And their test results were: 0 – 60 in 6.6 sec. and the quarter mile in 15.1 at 94. Thus, my W8 with 270 / 273 ought to do slightly better. We’ll see. . . (BTW: in the same test, the Lincoln LS8 Sport they tested turned in acceleration numbers of: 0 – 60 in 7.5 and the quarter mile in 15.7 at 90. This was my previous car. So, it seems reasonable that my W8 feels quicker – setting aside the notorious un-reliability of everyone’s ‘butt dyno’!)   Does it pull the same lateral G as the G35 or a BMW 3 series w/Sport Package. Almost certainly no. But with more aggressive rubber, I expect that it will provide enough grip for entertainment value at any sane public road speed.   Just my opinions.   Cheers, - Ray Off shortly to put on a few more ‘break-in’ miles at lunch . . .
#63 of 11073 The best segment of cars by cmnott Jun 04, 2002 (11:13 am)
I recently went through the list of entry level cars...I was in test drive heaven!   325i - very nice car, best shifter/clutch of all, but not enough power for me. Great motor though as fas as smoothness. the interior is average, nothing better. With leather and wood it helps but you either dig it or you don't.   330i - same as above but better power, although I find the power to be linear. You can really move in this car but the sensation of thrust is lacking. I like that sunroof and leather are std. Better value overall than 325i plus std. 17" wheels (although with all-seasons). Pricy.   IS300- Nice manual tranny and smooth motor. That's about it. hate the interior, feels claustrophobic and chintzy.   X-Type - I liked the 3.0L Sport, but did not like the grey stained maple. Didn't look like a jag. Very nearly purchased a 3.0L British Racing Green with Ivory Leather and beautiful walnut but with options this car is riciulously overpriced, makes the BMW look like a bargain hunter. Too bad, nice motor and very good manual tranny and ride. Brakes were strong. One thing about the motor was it just didn't feel or go like 0-60 6.5 as advertised. Nicest interior overall.   A4 3.0 - Porky, ponderous even with sport package. Did not feel swift and easily the worst tranny available in this segment. Nice interior, leather was only average. you could barely tell the difference between the leather and leatherette, which is a good thing if you are cheap, but bad if you opt for leather. By the way, the leather in the BMW was much better.   S4 (2001)- Nice but not as fast as I thought it would be (I did drive a 99 Mustang GT). It rockets off the line but it isn't that impressive afterwards. Nicer seats and support but interior is too gloomy. 250bhp and 258 lb ft. motor is not an audible delight, the 2002 A4 3.0 sounds amazing compared to the S4. I think the backpressure has gobbled up the exhaust note. An exhaust would be perfect here. They were giving them away (9000$ off MSRP - and people were definitely buying!) but it just looked dated now beside the new ones.   G35 - went and looked at one in showroom and was not impressed and without a manual tranny, I wasn't interested one bit. I still managed to drive one and was impressed with the torque, it definitely had thrust that the others lacked (except the S4). Nice seats and neat touches for rear passengers. I really liked the dynamics of the car but the tranny left me cold. The fit and finish was poor, maybe it was an early model...no dicker sticker which made it cost as much as the A4 3.0 and BMW 330i was close.   Lincoln LS V6 - very good handling and crisp 5 speed. Engine was thrashy at high revs which is particularly bad because it needs to be revved to really move. Torque is lacking here. But I liked the car overall, especially with the Sport susp.   Acura TL-S, another auto tranny but an incredible motor, definitely my favourite V6 of all of them as far as sound is concerned. Interior average and handling so-so. Excellent price.   Volvo S60 T5 - I chose this car for its thrust (come to think of it 3bhp less and 15 lb.ft less than the S4 is quite close to the S4, and it is lighter) FWD torque steer is evident only beyond 8/10ths, but it is there, no question about it. Best seats, best stereo, average steering feel falls behind the Jaguar and BMW. Brakes while strong are grabby but it takes getting used to. Amazing power and style. Seems decent off the line but after 100km/h it easily pulls the hardest. Price was also a consideration as it was cheaper than BMW, Audi, Jaguar.   Didn't drive the CTS but I am sure it is excellent.   In conclusion these are all excellent cars and even though we all nitpick this and that on all of them, I would be fine with any of them in my driveway. Honestly.
#64 of 11073 CTS = very, very bad car by blueguydotcom Jun 04, 2002 (1:27 pm)
I had the grave misfortune to drive a CTS, and it's not in the same league as the Bimmer, Audi, Infiniti or even the lesser Acura/Lexus/Jag.   The CTS i drove was a 5 speed sport model with a sticker of 38k (gasp!). The tranny was rough, very rough, almost Mustang bad. The interior felt cheap with lots of hard plastic and very little in the way of substantial or soft-touch materials. The throttle response was weak and required excessive modulation of a rather awkward gas pedal. The car's a rolling bed of 1998 technology, no automatic brake distribution for one thing. The salesmen kept insisting 4 channel ABS is impressive...to each his own. Handling? Nothing at all like the claims car mags are making. It was a slow reacting boat...turn the wheels, feel the car undulate and then slowly shift directions. Not impressive in the least. In fact when the salesguy asked me what I thought after the drive I told him the CTS wasn't even a real competitor to the germans or japanese. He snorted and reminded me, "This is a caddy, not a sports car." Yeah, well that Caddy can sit on the lot with the other heaps they have.
#65 of 11073 cmnott by jagboyxkr Jun 04, 2002 (4:20 pm)
Congradulations on your new S60 T5! It is a great looking car, and I hope you are very happy with it. I saw a really nice one in front of me this morning. Have fun with it!
#66 of 11073 Thanks jagboyxkr... by cmnott Jun 05, 2002 (7:11 am)
Hey blueguy, what wrond with the Mustang tranny! I know it is not a FWD type gearbox but when you have 300 lb.ft. of torque twisting that car, you need a strong tranny. In all honesty, the clutch, while incredibly easy to modulate was hevay, but with a purpose. never missed a gear either, which can't be said about the A4 6-speed...   jagboyxkr, I know you have an X-Type and I was right in there to the end with this car. Bottom line was 10000CDN difference. The way they package the options is ridiculous. i needed the split fold seats, but they were bundled in a $2000 package. Xenons? Twice asmuch as any other car, $1600.00. Sunroof? another 1600.00. It was unbeleivable but the lease rate was very low (1.9%) which helped make up the difference.   I don't care what anybody says about the X-Type, because most have never driven them, it is IMO, a better overall car than the Audi. In Canada, AWD is recommended...this car gets slaughtered because of its high price. This car should have been priced equal to the leader of the class, but to price it more than the best car in the segment is suicide in this hot market.   The T5 is broken in nicely, I have over 2000 miles on it now and it is everything I expected. What i didn't expect was the sheer power this thing has after 100km'h. I think it would beat my Mustang at that speed in a rolling start, no question. i would even say an S4...
#67 of 11073 cmnott by blueguydotcom Jun 05, 2002 (7:17 am)
Hey, I've never driven an 18 wheeler, so maybe the Mustang's tranny isn't like one, but that's how I imagine a big rig's tranny to feel.
#68 of 11073 cmnott comparison by cybersol Jun 05, 2002 (8:57 am)
Thanks for the comparison post, it was very informative. Congratulations on your S60 T5.
#69 of 11073 3.2TL type-s by phatratpak Jun 19, 2002 (11:46 am)
I didn't want a manual tranny because I like to eat a sandwich or be on the phone, roll up/down windows and sunroof at any time while I drive. I test-drove a used '98A4quattro 2.8, new 325ci,325xi. I loved those bimmers and audi was a great car but the bottom line sticker is what made me go with the Acura. with the steptronic this car is an absolute joy, I went from a 1993dodge P.O.S. I'm only at 150miles so far but no complaints and extremely satisified with my decision...
#70 of 11073 um... by blueguydotcom Jun 19, 2002 (11:49 am)
What does a manual have to do with eating, drinking, talking, windowing (? LOL), sunroofing (?)? I have a manual (actually never owned an automatic) and I have no problems carrying on several tasks at once. It's just like walking and talking.

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