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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

11073 messages,  Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 1:47 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G35, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Lexus IS 250, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

#7 of 11073 Choices by riez Mar 25, 2002 (4:44 pm)
One beauty of BMW 3 Series is that there are so many models to choose from. Almost half of all buyers in America don't get the basic RWD 4 door sedan. Besides having 3 engine and 3 transmission choices, you can get coupe, convertible, AWD, station wagon, and super-high performance M-Series!!!   hungrywhale... I concur that having the availability of a manual transmission across the line is absolutely critical!!!
#8 of 11073 manual coming by blueguydotcom Mar 26, 2002 (12:20 pm)
good grief, so you wait 9 months for the manual. Even with an auto, I prefer to every car listed and I NEVER have owned an auto and never thought I'd enjoy driving a car with an auto. That's what value, performance and an exceptional engine can do for a car. Once the G has a stick there is not another sedan under the M3 that I'd consider.
#9 of 11073 BG by hungrywhale Mar 26, 2002 (1:02 pm)
I'll give it a fair shot when the manual comes out, but I'm just flat-out not interested in an auto. I don't care how fast it is. It's not about the speed, it's about the driving experience and having more control over the car.
#10 of 11073 hungry by blueguydotcom Mar 26, 2002 (1:45 pm)
I understand it's not about the speed. I really don't care if the car won't do over 100 as I rarely break the century mark. What I do care about is power and with the manual mode on the auto, I can get it when I want it. Will I buy an auto-equipped G? In all likelihood, no. I desperately want to drive the 6 speed.
#11 of 11073 Well, then by hungrywhale Mar 26, 2002 (4:00 pm)
It sounds like you know why I won't even put it on my list (let alone at the top) until the manual comes out.
#12 of 11073 Manual by riez Mar 26, 2002 (6:00 pm)
Is there such a thing as an automatic-only true performance sedan? Not in my book. Certainly not in Europe or Asia. Only in America is such an oxymoron possible. Sad.   If or when the manual G35 comes out and the coupe version, then the G35 will be interesting enough to be a serious contender in this segment.
#13 of 11073 by wishnhigh1 Mar 26, 2002 (6:55 pm)
If I had to rank the entry lux performance sedans, here is what I would choose:   Audi A4 3.0(lots of bang for the buck, loads of style and loads of luxury)   Cadillac CTS( Decent BTFB, good handling, non-lemming style)   Infinity G35(Tons of BFTB, good luxury, but completely boring exterior and even more boring of an interior)   BMW 325(very little BFTB, excellent handling/build quality/resale, classy looking but too conservative for me)   SAAB Viggen(almost zero BFTB, spotty build quality, but the damn coolest style in the world).   Everything else is not worth my time
#14 of 11073 Riez by shipo Mar 26, 2002 (9:06 pm)
Hey my friend, dig this, in Australia, the ONLY 5-Series that can be had with a manual gearbox is the M5! Yeah, right, not the 525i, 530i, 535i or the 540i, they are all automatic only.   Best Regards, Shipo
#15 of 11073 Riez wrote... by mbarto Mar 27, 2002 (6:20 am)
>"Is there such a thing as an automatic-only true performance sedan? Not in my book. Certainly not in Europe or Asia. Only in America is such an oxymoron possible. Sad. If or when the manual G35 comes out and the coupe version, then the G35 will be interesting enough to be a serious contender in this segment."   Riez, I read from your profile that you have a manual BMW 5-series. But I think you are wrong to not consider a car such as a Infiniti G35 to be a serious contender as a performance luxury sedan. From your logic, then the BMW 3-series (your wife's) or the 5-series with the Steptronic should not be contenders either. That's belittling the Infiniti, Audi, Lexus, Acuras, BMW's etc. with automatics.   When I return in December from Qatar, I plan on purchasing a sports sedan. I'm leaning on the G35, but the BMW 330i along with the Audi S4 are also contenders. IMO, if the handling of the Infiniti is as good as the BMW as some that drove it has stated, then it will hard to pass up especially for the price. Also my first choice will be a manual, and Infiniti should have the manual out by December. I will test drive all three, manual and automatics, and make my choice from there.   I do agree with you that manuals are more fun to drive, and that will be my first choice. But, automatics in this category, especially those made by BMW, Infiniti and others, should not be eliminated as performance sedans. Different flavors for different people.   I have been following discussions on many boards and what I have been noticing is that there is so many "experts" on what is the best sports sedan. And most haven't even driven the competitors to give an honest opinion. This is not aimed at you Riez or Shipko, because your profiles states that you own a BMW already. But from what I noticed is that some BMW "supportors" don't even own a BMW, (at least not from their profile) or they state that they never drove an Infiniti G35, but they still make "unsupported" facts, assumptions or opinions on such. (See the Edmund's BMW 3-series discussion). I hope in your defense, Reiz, that you drove the automatic Infiniti G35, to give an opinionated statement that it doesn't classify as a performance sedan. I value your opinion and others as well.   Again, I'm not flaming you, but I try to be an informed consumer before I buy anything. That is the reason that I will drive every car that I'm interested in and make my choice from there. I'm also always interested in those opinions from people that own the type of car I'm shopping for and at least drove it, so they can give valid pro/negative statements.   Cheers!
#16 of 11073 mbarto by hungrywhale Mar 27, 2002 (9:00 am)
I think what riez and I are trying to say is not that automatics perform poorly or that only weenies drive them   But any car that truly holds itself out as a performance sedan NEEDS at least the option of a manual tranny. Manuals are always faster than automatics and they are almost always the choice of the enthusiast driver.   There's nothing at all wrong with automatics, but I sure don't want one.

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