Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 6:17 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#5697 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [poodog13]
Aug 08, 2006 (8:43 am)
Poodog and Blueguy are both absoulutely correct. For themselves. And therein lies the rub. The car that you buy is the best for you! No one can argue that point. Only you can say, "Ooops. I goofed. Shoulda bought the TL/3 because for me it would have been the better car..."
I tend to agree with Poodog's post. Including driving an auto. For most of my life I drove sticks (learned on a 4 speed Saab 99, if I remember...), VW Scirocco, Mitsu Mirage Turbo, Acura Integra, Nissan Sentra SE-R (very poor man's, me, BMW 2002!) Saab 900-all sticks. But for me, commuting in the Boston area just took all the joy out of a manual (I actually taught the evil wife to drive a stick and bought her the Saab 900 so that I could enjoy it on the weekends, but she too grew tired of rowing her own during her commute and like all women now drives an RX300). I may indeed return to the manny tranny fold, never say never. But for now, to me the TL offered the best balance/value of all the attributes important to me, including FWD. Which, all things being equal (or even not equal?), I have found to be superior in the snow to RWD. 30 years of ski trips to the mountains of New England have proved it over and over to me.
Blueguy? I think he needs to dump the BMW and get a Lotus Elise/Exige. It's smaller and lighter with much less luxury which sounds like his cup o' tea!
#5698 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [tayl0rd]
Aug 08, 2006 (8:57 am)
blueguydotcom, I'm confused as to why you would even buy a 3-series. You're complaining that it's too big and too spacious. Why didn't you opt for a Z28, Trans Am, or Mustang GT?
I'll explain why and try not to disparage the cars you mentioned. Compared to the competition the e90 offered (and realize I was coming from an 330i ZHP) somethings I found superior:
The assembled competition: CTS, TL, TSX, GTI, A3, GLI, A4, IS350, G35, C Class, Legacy GT, Mazdaspeed6, 350Z missed the mark on all or most of those points. Of course my e46 trumped them all easily, the e90 did so too, but not nearly as convincingly.
I like the bigger size, nicer interior, and smoother lines of the new one. On a similar note, I've driven a new 330i SP and if that's what you call too smooth and refined, I'd hate to drive one of the older ones. It was noisy, not plush at all, and stiff as a buckboard.
Compared to my ZHP, the e90 ZSP's Buicky.
That's fine for my Mustang GT (which isn't noisy at all), but if I'm spending 40 large
40k? My 06 330i was far less than that.
on a luxury nameplate, there'd better be some luxury in it as well as more size; which is why I'm eyeballing the 550i.
I wouldn't touch the e60. Way too big. I want a small RWD, manual sedan - like an e30 but brought up today's standards.
#5699 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [richey02hg]
Aug 08, 2006 (9:02 am)
e46 = BMW 3 series (99 to 2005 sedans, coupes from 2000-2006)
e90 = BMW 3 series (2006 sedans, the 07 coupes are e92s)
e36 = 3 series (92-98)
e30 = 3 series (82-91)
#5700 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [louiswei]
Aug 08, 2006 (9:09 am)
"I agree with you and I think that's why TL is the best selling luxury sedan."
Actually the 3 series is the best selling entry luxury sedan.
#5701 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [blueguydotcom]
Aug 08, 2006 (10:01 am)
Based on the cars I offered up:
Handling - check
Roadfeel - check
Efficiency - in what way? fuel? check
Ergonomics - personal preference
Maintenance - you're kidding
Pricing - enough already with the jokes!
Manual tranny - check
RWD - check (and AWD)
IRS - check (for all but the Mustang and F-bodies)
Other than your preference of ergonomics, the 3-series has no tangible advantages over any of those cars. That leads back into your preferring an older model of the 3-series for the same reason someone else prefers the current model. Size, comfort, etc. is all enveloped in ergonomics.
And, yes, a new 330i optioned the way I would want it is well over 40 large MSRP. If I recall, when I optioned one out, it was $44K. As a rule for me, I don't argue negotiated prices because even if one person can get a car for $1K below invoice doesn't mean the next person can. MSRP is the only true baseline to go on.
#5702 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [louiswei]
Aug 08, 2006 (10:35 am)
For those of you blaming the TL (or the 325) for being too large, don't forget there is the TSX.
#5703 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [killerbunny]
Aug 08, 2006 (10:38 am)
Four banger? No thanks...
#5704 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [tayl0rd]
Aug 08, 2006 (11:05 am)
Other than your preference of ergonomics, the 3-series has no tangible advantages over any of those cars.
What? How can you say something subjective has no tangible advantages?
Handling - no entry lux car can compare. Case closed.
Roadfeel - the only car that comes close is the G35 and that's still vague.
Efficiency - the TL can pull 30 mpg on a freeway drive. The others simpyl can't.
Ergonomics - only Audi comes close.
Maintenance - BMW is the only one to offer free maintenance so they win automatically there.
Pricing - 35.7k for my 330i with sport, xenons, leather, pdc, comfort access, RWD and 6 speed manual. Only the G35 comes close as it offers a 6 speed, RWD, comfort acces and xenons. CTS and C Class can be had with manual and RWD but they're boring cars on every level and no match for the Infiniti or BMW models. In the world of the IS, A4, Mazdaspeed6, Legacy, they lose because they either lack RWD or a manual.
RWD - that discounts all FWD and AWD cars.
MSRP is the only true baseline to go on.
I view invoice as the baseline - start there and go up. And in the case of BMW I view ED invoice.
Again, it's all subjective. I tried all the competition. The e90 may blow compared to my old e46 ZHP but compared to what's out there the e90 stands above them. Shrug. Tells you how little competition exists in the realm of the RWD, manual, sedan world...CTS, G35 and...yeah that's about it.
#5705 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [blueguydotcom]
Aug 08, 2006 (12:00 pm)
"Shrug. Tells you how little competition exists in the realm of the RWD, manual, sedan world...CTS, G35 and...yeah that's about it."
Of course there is a sub-category to that called, "The emasculated RWD, manual, sedan world", which would of course include the IS250.
#5706 of 16983 Re: Latest info about 2007 Acura TL [shipo]
Aug 08, 2006 (12:01 pm)
Oops! My bad.
Doesn't Mercedes still offer a "Sport" version of the C-Class with a stick?