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Sedans Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans
11073 messages, Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 1:47 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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| I've tested the 3.0, not the S4. Hmmm... new S4 in '03, huh? Maybe I should just wait. What do you think, cybersol? Right now, th3 current S4 states 250hp, yes? | |
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Yeah, the current S4 has 250 hp and 258 lb-ft of torque. The torque is fully online by 1850 rpm. So this is why it scoots. The new S4 should be really nice. If you have the time to wait, it might be worth seeing. It might move up in price a little if the performance gets closer to the BMW M3, but then the old S4's should be easier to pick up at a good price right as the new ones are coming out. So many decisions. Have fun making the right one for you! |
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Not so fast. There is merit to the "nationality based" debate. Let me explain to you why Japanese cars have higher quality (in terms of reliability) than American or European cars. The reason is cultural. Americans have always had an adventurous, entrepreneurial spirit. We take chances. Its not in our nature to "accept" things as they are. I think this is somewhat genetic, since the vast number of us are descended from immigrants - aren't we all, really - people who took tremendous risk, and had great courage to brave the unknown for the promise of a new and better life. As such, in areas of design, we bore very easily. Americans are always looking for the next great thing, the next new design, the next technology breakthrough. Europeans, especially Germans, are like this about cars, if not about everything else. The US auto industry is always ready to chuck the old and start over from scratch - witness Chrysler and Ford over the last two decades. As such, our products are usually stylish and inventive, but not very refined - see minivans, SUV's, cab-forward, night-vision, etc.. The Japanese by comparison have a culture that is traditional and thousands of years old. They have made an entire culture out of honoring tradition and the status quo. We had to yank them kicking and screaming into the 20th century after world war II. I know this is somewhat simplistic, but bear with me. What the Japanese are good at is taking an idea and refining it year after year, until it is near perfect. There is very little innovation or risk taking. That is why the cars are so bland. When was the last time you saw a new technology invented in Japan? VCR's, computer technology, cell phones, the microwave oven...all American inventions that are better built by the Japanese. The same goes for cars. Most innovations come from the US or Germany, with some safety innovations coming from Scandinavia (give up the turbos and 5-cylinders, already those are as refined as they're going to get!). Anyway,...when you distill it down to its essence, this is why Toyotas and Hondas never break. Its also why they are no more than transportation appliances. And, this is why the best performance cars from Japan will always be knock-offs (albeit sometimes very good ones) of something somebody else does better and more originally. I'll step off my soap box now, and await your wailing. |
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The problem is that they are HUGE generalizations. Also, you are talking Japanese as almost exclusivly Honda and Toyota. What about Subaru, Mazda, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Daihatsu, and Suzuki? So far the only makes that seem to keep with that Japanese Culture are Toyota and Honda. And many American and European makes are now capable of having higher quality than more than 70% of Japanese cars. Doesn't help your generalization that much, does it? So where do the generalizations stop? They should stop with brands, and not nations. |
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Have found out that with some of the more powerful cars like the G35 or Corvette the difference in performance from a practical standpoint isn't really an issue because these cars are faster than we can ever dream of driving without either killing ourselves or getting tickets all the time. I have an automatic G35 and love it. Being that it is an automatic I can enjoy my coffee, shave, talk on my cel phone and hug my wife while driving in rush hour traffic. If I feel the urge which I don't very often I can shift the manumatic and pretend it is a stick. When I get my Ferrari it will have the paddle shifting because I don't ever want another clutch! Just my opinion! Paul El Cajon, California |
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How does your theory explain English cars? A country steeped in tradition producing poor quality cars with little inovation? Look what a traditionalist country managed to do to the Acura Legend when they produced it as a Stirling. LOL ==================================== Quote wishnhigh1: "What about Subaru, Mazda, Isuzu, Mitsubishi, Daihatsu, and Suzuki? So far the only makes that seem to keep with that Japanese Culture are Toyota and Honda." ==================================== Those cars in general reflect the perfectionist attitude of 1pierce's post. With virtually no exception, the overall quality of Japanese brand cars, especially fit and finish, considerably excels the American brands. From what I have read, this is due to the attitude of Japanese management in not accepting mediocre craftsmanship. Not the abilities of the assembly line workers. You may have a point though, that some of the Japanese brands show as high a level of innovation as the American and German brands. After all, which country has used the Wankle rotary, and Miller cycle engines? And who introduced us to the VTEC engines etc? American management leans strongly to the bottom line and CEO bonuses, with refinement and polish falling by the wayside as a casuality of the heavy handed management style. |
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"Being that it is an automatic I can enjoy my coffee, shave, talk on my cel phone and hug my wife while driving in rush hour traffic." Truly critical things to do while one's driving. |
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| He did mention "in rush hour traffic." Like there's anything else to do in bumper-to-bumper. Not like rush hour demands anything of the driver. I've read books while in traffic. Let out clutch, apply gas, push in clutch, glide, repeat. Snooze. | |
| Edmunds has a new feature called "True Cost To Own". It is listed when one researches out the various vehicles on the new car heading. It is one of the 13 subjects when you click on a particular vehicle. It is very useful when comparing one vehicle to another. "True Cost To Own" takes the purchase price and adds things like depreciation, insurance, license fees, etc. and gives you a figure for 5-yr ownership. They even tailor it to your particular zip code. I tried it on a few vehicles and it is very useful. | |
| I have not had a chance to look at it in person, but does the 38K Passat W8 fit into the entry -level performance luxury sedan category? Any other upcoming (next year or so) vehicles fit into this category? | |
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