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Sedans Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans
11073 messages, Last post on Jul 16, 2009 at 1:47 PM
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Sorry to disappoint with the slushbox, but if we were all the same life would be boring (and there would only be 1 car type). I would prefer RWD, but the best FWD's (torque sensitive steering) are getting close enough to bring the acceptable price premium for RWD down. Price range is 25-40K as you mention. Passat, 300M, 325i, are too slow for me. The C Classes are either too slow or more expensive than the BMW. I would choose the BMW over the X-type, as they are similarly priced and I live in sun country. The maxima (better value than the I35) is a good suggestion, and I am considering that equally with the Altima at the lower end. My wife loves Camry's, but I'm looking for excitement. slushbox or not. Thanks, cybersol |
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The new Altima is great as my friends just bought one. However, dollar for dollar I think the Maxima is the over-all winner for a FWD car. If you can live without the amenities of the I35 the GLE with leather, sunroof, BOSE can't be beat. I've owned two Maximas. Me! I recently made the jump to the 330i, and it's been worth every penny. However the G35 owners are very passionate about their choices. For a couple of dollars more than the Maxima, hovering around the I35 I guess, the TL-S can't be beat either. I understand when it comes down to it, you pick what you think has the right combination of value, performance, luxury and the right type of car for you. For every person it is different. When I got the BMW I was cross-shopping SUVs, mini-vans, and FWD passenger cars to see what struck my fancy, and I was ready to get an Explorer. |
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cybersol... Excitement and slushbox don't seem to be compatible. I can't get too excited about FWDers. Certainly not a slushbox FWDer. Not sure what you mean about "the best FWDers (torque sensitive steering)". Very powerful FWDers tend to suffer from severe torque steering. Use of equal length half-shafts and limited slip differential can help, but not completely eliminate. The laws of physics remain. When the drive wheels and steering wheels are one and the same, and you have a powerful motor, you'll get some torque steering. Do you have kids? Plan to in near future? If not, have you considered any coupes or convertibles? They can be a bit more exciting. |
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"Excitement and slushbox don't seem to be compatible." Agreed. Unfortunately, most American drivers don't seem to get it. They care about silly stuff like 0-60, 1/4 mile, hp & torque numbers, but choose to miss out on the fun part of driving. |
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| Riez, you have heard of speed sensitive steering? This varies the power steering boost as with the speed. Acura claims to have torque sensitive power steering on the TL-S (not the TL though). This would supposedly vary the power steering boost with the torque being applied. And that in theory could eliminate a large amount of torque steer found in powerful FWD cars. It still doesn't eliminate the FWD tendency to under steer due the the drive wheels being the same as the turning wheels. | |
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cybersol... There are two types. Those tied to engine output and those tied to road speed. I have heard that the latter are superior, since you can vary engine speeds (RPMs) a lot, depending upon gear being used and speed, even while driving relative steady speeds. Better systems vary boost on road speed, since you normally need more assist at low speeds, regardless of engine RPMs. Here is all that the lengthy full-color TL brochure says: "Steering: Variable Power-Assist Rack-and-Pinion". This is off the tech specs on page 30. I cannot find a single mention of the steering system anywhere else in the brochure. So if Acura thinks its variable assist power steering system is special, they are keeping it a secret. This large brochure covers both the TL and TL Type S. |
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Yeah, I have that brouchure and they don't mention the difference between the TL and TL-S, though they say both have variable power assist. They do not say how it varies.
But on the Acura website. TL -> Specifications -> Body/Suspension/Chassis it says:
Steering Type
Here's the link if you want to check it out: Hard to find, but not a secret. |
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cybersol... From what I've read, the better variable power assist system is tied to road speed, not engine RPMs. Once you get a car up to 25 mph or more, there isn't much need for assist, even if your RPMs decline due to turning or downshifting. And certainly once you hit 45 mph or more there isn't much need for assist no matter what happens to your RPMs. But keep in mind that torque steering isn't due to the steering system. It is due to other factors. Can be very pronounced in powerful FWDers. Corrective actions include limited slip differentials and equal half-shafts. Need to provide equal power simultaneously to drive wheels. From standing start, floor your car. See if the wheel pulls in one direction. You'll have to correct with the steering wheel (to keep the car straight) but by then you'll have already encountered the torque steering. You can also notice it if you are aggressively accelerating in a curve. Wheels pull you out of your intended direction and you have to correct. |
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So, if you read through most of this group, alot of references went out to Audi... give a guy a hand here and compare an Audi A4 3.0 to an Audi S4... I see a difference of about $5K, 30hp, and a sporty suspension. Why shouldn't I load up a 3.0, rather than going after the S4? Oh, and does anyone know on possible improvements for one or the other for 2003? |
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Have you driven them both? The S4 really moves. Even by Audi's own 0-60 times the S4 manual is 1 second faster and the S4 tiptronic is 1.2 seconds faster. Yet, the S4 is currently based on the 2001 A4 platform, and it is scheduled to be upgraded to the new platform in the 2003 model year. Expect the performance difference to increase as the indications are that the new S4 will pack 300 or more hp. Hope this helps. |
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