Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#305 of 16087 Point / Counterpoint
Jan 03, 2004 (4:38 pm)
Speaking of what point are you trying to make...I am not following your observation that taking non street legal cars to the track is a whole different ball game than taking your street legal almost unmodified car to the track. What was your first clue ? What is your point ?
I am fairly certain that the statistics on repairs etc for BMW's probably include a few more cars than just yours. I am on my third Acura and have never had a problem. Acura is rated as the number one most reliable automobile between 1999-2003 by your favorite uninformed magazine, Consumer Reports.
My point in the original post ( remember I started this discussion ) and my continuing point on this subject is that for $35K I believe the '04 Acura TL is the best value out there in a 4 door automobile. What you get for a given amount of money is one way to measure value. You get more for $35K in the TL than any of it's competitors.
BTW, "hey raher" ? Nice touch.
#306 of 16087 Point/counterpoint
Jan 03, 2004 (4:45 pm)
Ok raher...we'll leave it at that. We have two different thought processes going here and all is good. There is room on this planet for both opinions, both thoughts and both cars.
Jan 03, 2004 (6:36 pm)
Its Shapiro spewing his BMW elitist rhetoric. Funny how some things don't change.
#308 of 16087 recent car and driver stats
Jan 03, 2004 (6:52 pm)
one other important thing missing from those stats is price.
I don't have that info from the mag handy, but that 330i apparently had the performance pack. Add in all the options already included in the TL and it looks to me to stack up something like this:
TL - $33K
330i - $47K
maybe someone can correct me if i'm wrong.
Jan 03, 2004 (7:31 pm)
You absolutily right, comparable equipped 330 does cost more that10K over TL.
And one more thing 330 for 35K does not have better performance in any way. Like KD, I am going to make Huyndai example her. 330 without performance package is like Huyndai in every way in and out.
Jan 03, 2004 (10:29 pm)
Correct but you still get a car that will outhandle the TL on a track, or a street.
According to our worthless source CR, the standard 330i will outhandle the standard G35. I am sure the standard G35 will outhandle the standard TL. Therefore the standard 330i will outhandle the standard TL.
I don't begrudge the TL anything, you can have your goodies, but I'll take the driving experience. For those who think the 330 with performance package costs $47, Blueguydotcom got his for about $39K. You might want to search the 3-series board for more information. No, it wasn't a stripper.
But all of this is academic until both these cars are taken to the track.
Ahhh speedracer good to see you back spewing your garbage as well.
#311 of 16087 Status, and nothing else but status
Jan 04, 2004 (12:56 am)
The vast majority of BMW owners do not drive manuals, nor do they speed....because you cannot speed in the US anyway. Just like most SUV owners do not go off road. It is all about status!
#312 of 16087 One more stat...
Jan 04, 2004 (1:18 am)
60-0 mph: 115 feet "Braking performance is top-notch, too, with 60-to-0 stops averaging a short, neat 115 feet. Our drivers were very impressed with our 6-speed's all-disc ABS brakes with Brembo front calipers. Results are comparable to some recent Porsche's we've tested." -- MotorWeek
That's right Shapiro...Porsche's!
#313 of 16087 saugatak...you asked about horsepower?
Jan 04, 2004 (1:42 am)
At this year's 2004 Los Angeles Auto Show, Acura unveiled its TL A-Spec Concept. This car sits on a two inch wider track with 21 inch wheels and is powered by a modified 3.2-liter V6 that puts out a total of 300 hp!
If this car makes it to production (and it probably will), it will leave the 330i in the dust and give the 5-Series a run for its money.
#314 of 16087 It is a buyer's choice
Jan 04, 2004 (3:24 am)
I saw the arguments about the TL and the 330. It is all about the buyer's choice. I love my 03 M3 and I also love my 03 G35. They are IMHO exceptional cars for the price I paid. I believe m3 handling can not be easily matched with a car in the same price range, except the corvette. g35 is also an excellent car and handles almost as good as the 330, i got the g because i didn't want another bmw 3 series. the car is exceptional when it comes to performance and the looks, many people talk to me about the car in parking lots and gas stations. meanwhile an m3 is as we know m3.
i recently test drove the tl (actually borrowed it from the dealer - manager is my friend) and there was so much hype about the car, so i got it for a couple of hours (their demo) drove around the town. and i was quite impressed, it is a way better car than the old tl. but the hype in my opinion is not well worth.
the sound system works excellent if you actually have a dvd audio disc (they had one that was sent from the factory i think) and it is just excellent quality. but when you put a regular cd it is nothing ordinary.
the performance, it has excellent pick up, but the fwd downgrades the potential of this car. whatever others say, there is the torque steer, this car would have been excellent as an rwd, and i think as far as the pick up (in street start the g will beat the tl, well we know m3 performance is something else)
the interior is good quality but does not match the refinement of the bmw 3 series or the audi or the mb, but better than the g. the interior space was less than the g along with the trunk space. i guess the g is a larger car overall and that makes a lot of difference, especially for me with a family and lots of people in the car at all times. i think interior space is similar to 3 series sedan. i am 6'3" and with my seating position there was almost no space at the back of the driver's seat (a similarity to the 3 sedan)
the handling of the car is not as refined as the 3 or the g. i realized this when i was entering a highway ramp at about 60-65 mph, and felt the need to hold the steering wheel with both hands very steady because the car almost got out of the road. it was a scary moment, and such wouldn't happen with a rwd 3 series or the g or the quattro audi. the handling is of course no issue in straight roads, but not everybody drives crazy like me in the backroads.
i would prefer an audi quattro, 3 series or the g for backroads, mountain roads, but definitely not a tl. the car just didn't make me feel comfortable enough, kind of made me scared in a couple of situations.
the looks are not so much in my style, it feels so dull and very accord like. it doesn't have a unique feeling of itself. i think they should have worked on the looks a little bit longer.
overall the tl is an excellent value for an ordinary daily driver. it offers so much for so less, good interior, good performance, good safety features, and a low msrp.
but for those who don't mind spending the extra cash i know that many will opt for other vehicles. acura tl in my opinion is the choice for first time near-luxo car buyers who do not have the ability of spending another 5k without worrying about their pockets.
i am looking forward to the new vette and most likely i will be the first in line to add the car into my garage. and then maybe trade in the g for the 05 audi a6 quattro.
meanwhile the argument of bmw is better than tl better than mb better than g better than this that can go on forever. but one need to know that everybody has a different budget, and different reason for buying a car. some people may not mind spending 40k, some people may only afford 34k some can not even afford that and some go out and buy a ferrari for 200k. instead of comparing i think it is best to drive the car and enjoy the purchase.
i honestly did not see a ferrari owner and a lamborghini owner fighting and arguing about their cars and try to prove one is better than the other.
because they just don't care much, they enjoy th