Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 8:41 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#2850 of 16982 Here we go again :)
Aug 20, 2004 (2:11 pm)
Several pages dedicated to arguing about what it is we're talking about. That's really an argument that the discussion lost its focus and isn't going anywhere productive, ya know?
As many of you know, in order to stop the continuing debate about the debates, I created a list of what is topical here - all of you had input, but I made the decision.
The list (pat Mar 19, 2004 6:34pm):
Acura TSX and TL
Infiniti G35 and maybe I35
Lexus IS 300 and maybe ES 330
Saab 9-3 and 9-5
Volvo S60/S60R and maybe S40
I see a couple of you have started other discussions to cover some of the bases not covered in that list. That's great ... maybe they will help us be able to talk about the cars themselves more often than we talk about which cars we are talking about.
#2852 of 16982 Performance is Luxury
Aug 21, 2004 (5:44 am)
"Do you really believe the M3-$20K=Sti. Give me a break. Honestly, drive both and then let us know. "
Kd… I haven't driven the STi but have driven the WRX, M3 and 330i. Let me tell you something, there are some people who are turned on by performance and don't need or want what is typically known as "luxury". It doesn't seem like this is your profile so I don't expect you to understand this.
When a performance driver gets going, the only things that matter are go, stop, turn… the thrill of the roller coaster. Stereos, fit n' finish, leather… all this stuff doesn't mean squat. To this kind of driver these Subies deliver some serious bang for the buck—performance for a HELLUVA lot less. To get the performance of both WRX and STi in a BMW you HAVE to go to the 330 perf pack/M3 respectively and dish out the cash.
On the "luxury" aspect I've said this elsewhere. Some people classify luxury by way of butt-pampering characteristics. The thrill seeking driver sees naked performance as a luxury in itself. This is why people are willing to pay ransom's for Porsches that historically have had interiors on the level of military Jeeps. Does this disqualify Porsches as luxury cars? Not in my book. Do "econobox" characteristics detract from performance? It merely puts it into the dubious "entry-level" category. Keep denying this.
Now kd, I have to ask you, have YOU driven the cars in question? Doesn't matter though… I think I know what you expect from a "luxury" performance car, and I don't expect anyone who is thoroughly happy with a 330i to understand my points.
Aug 21, 2004 (5:56 am)
I understand your point, but this topic is titled Entry Level Performance Sedans, not Value Oriented Performance Cars. I agree to some people it's how fast to 60, how does it turn, what is the traction, and they don't care about any modicum of leather or wood. Others want the leather and trim.
I could have easily got the EVO or STi as could all of us. But that is not in our target frame of reference, or else we'd all be on the Subie board, telling everyone our lastest conquer with our Sti.
There is no one better car. Car manufacturers design goals include a number compromises, your purchasing goals want to minimize the compromises or trade-offs and maximize the priorities. Aspects might include finances, looks, luxury, reliability, dealer service, gas mileage etc.
So you can't really say car a is better then car b in an absolute sense.
This is not about BMW vs the world. It's about saying an M3 and Sti have as much in common as a Lexus ES and Dodge SRT4.
Aug 21, 2004 (9:09 am)
Anybody want to talk about the vehicles in the topic list?
#2856 of 16982 just a final comment about this ;)
Aug 22, 2004 (12:30 am)
"this topic is titled Entry Level Performance Sedans, not Value Oriented Performance Cars"
kd, that really is the best way to describe it. were talking about luxury AND performance, not luxury OR performance. there are differences between them, subbies are about performance, but not luxury. honestly things got weird ever since subbie legacy got into this category, in a place it shouldnt be.
Aug 22, 2004 (12:09 pm)
Why is there even a debate about this?
Whether you agree with it or not, the forum moderator has clearly stated an exclusive list of cars to discuss in this thread.
Aug 23, 2004 (6:55 am)
thematrixhasu, please send me an email, thanks.