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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans
16087 messages, Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum.What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#2415 of 16087 Chasing the New vs Keeping the Proven by riez
Jun 19, 2004 (3:54 pm)
Styling/design tends to be about today and the next 10 minutes. Just standing out. Making some bold statement. But only time will tell if the shape lasts and looks fresh in the future. True performance lasts forever.A classic, almost by definition, is a timelessly styled car that truly performs in comparison to the other cars out there. Think of the Porsche 356 and '57 Chevy. Or the Jaguar E-type, Corvette Stingray, and Aston Martin DB6 in the 1960s. The BMW 1600/1800/2002 in 1960s and 1970s. Maybe the Fiat X19 or Porsche 914/6 in the 1970s. Audi in the 1980s. Dodge Viper in the 1990s. Or the various 911s for about 30 plus years.
There aren't that many design classics. Even normally beautiful exotic marques like Ferrari or Maserati have a ton of duds and mediocrities. (Can't say too many Italian cars after the 1960s impress me. Their exotics went down hill styling-wise in the 1970s.)
Give me a conservatively styled car (possibly with a bright exterior color like red or yellow, for excitement) that is an all around performer. That is the car that stands the test of time for the average person.
Now if only I could afford an M3 or M5!
#2416 of 16087 blueguy by designman
Jun 19, 2004 (4:16 pm)
"A debadged 03 M5 is the ultimate as it can stomp the hades out of most cars…"Could it be that "stomping the hades" out of other cars is also another way of seeking attention? Dealing with our insecurities? Validating ourselves?
#2417 of 16087 blueguydotcom by saugatak
Jun 19, 2004 (4:18 pm)
no, the term head-turner means you want people to notice the car. you want comments. you want to be noticed. this is the precise reason I hate owning a BMW. Like many other makes it's got a reputation - a bad one - for being driven by uppity people seeking attention.I think you're being too judgmental and not sufficiently appreciative of esthetics.
Lots of people (including myself) enjoy and appreciate beautiful things.
I spend money redesigning the interior of my house b/c I enjoy living in a beautiful home.
Every time I see a beautiful woman I always take a look b/c I like looking at beautiful women.
When I see a beautiful car (for example, the upcoming Ford Mustang is just GORGEOUS IMO), I turn my head because I enjoy looking at it.
Because someone is in a "head-turner" car doesn't necessarily mean that he is "craving attention." It could just be that person genuinely enjoys and gets pleasure out of the look of his car.
And why do you care what people think of other BMW owners? As long as you enjoy driving it, to hell with what others think.
#2418 of 16087 Riez by designman
Jun 19, 2004 (4:18 pm)
"Give me a conservatively styled car (possibly with a bright exterior color like red or yellow, for excitement) that is an all around performer. That is the car that stands the test of time for the average person.Now if only I could afford an M3 or M5!"
Alright Riez!! At least we agree on the M5, the sporty quality of red and yellow, and prudent maintenance habits!!!!
#2419 of 16087 by kdshapiro
Jun 19, 2004 (7:07 pm)
"The metal on the CTS screams, "Pay attention to me."Yes it does, unfortunately it's the ugly duckling of the entry level luxo crowd. Unlike a BMW which just quietly sits it it's corner and says" "Look at me I'm handsome". The BMW doesn't scream, it gets noticed through it's timeless styling.
Hey do you want red/purple spike hair (Caddy) or slicked-back grey-silver hair (BMW)?
#2420 of 16087 Debadged M5 by dcwong1
Jun 19, 2004 (8:14 pm)
Is debadging a model name on the trunk lid another way of seeking attention? I've never understood why people debadge their vehicles. Can't people be happy with want they have?BTW, an M5 is easy to spot by the quad exhaust, side gills, and the front fascia.
#2421 of 16087 designman re:GTR by cheerioboy26
Jun 19, 2004 (8:49 pm)
That autospies link is a Photoshop of an Opel. Someone on FA said " Look at the interior of both of these cars through the windshield as well as the A-pillar detail. What sold me was the little horizontal line that is reflecting light in the rear seat area of both cars."
compare with
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/large/1749-2.jpg
Opel presented the Insignia, an automotive vision of the future and a design study with a new formal concept, for the first time at the Frankfurt International Motor Show (September 13 to 21, 2003).
#2422 of 16087 Somewhat Bored, but Really Enlightened by rckyvntr
Jun 19, 2004 (10:25 pm)
The person who started this thread on Jun 17, I feel surprised, enlightened and thankful – all at the same time.I am surprised that the topic elicited such heated discussion. Everyone could have simply said “Go away … you’re blasphemous to have raised the issue. You just don’t understand.”
I am also enlightened and thankful, because I have learned a lot by reading the responses.
There is one thing I would like to clarify – while I can understand that this may be an issue of insecurity for some – it is not that way for me. I am a secure person, and I know what drives (no pun intended) my needs. When I use the term “head turning” I refer to the simple enjoyment and excitement one feels as she drives a vehicle that is so attractive that people’s heads turn.
My dilemma is …on one hand, I feel very proud to be at a point in my life where I have a choice among the brands (Lexus, BMW, Infinity, Cadillac, Acura, etc.) of automobiles whose owners have included some of my mentors. On the other hand, I feel bored, resistant and unfulfilled when I think of advancing to a class whose vehicles are bland, common and cookie-cutter in their outward appearance.
The very manufacturers of these automobiles demonstrate their recognition of the problem by their attempts to change – (ref: BMW’s Bangle; Cadillac’s Stealth theme, etc.). Additionally, owners (on this discussion board and among those with whom I have spoken) demonstrate, by their heated dialogue, that the issue is alive and unresolved.
My hope is that, when this discussion concludes, everyone gains from it. I know I have gained tremendous insight. Thank you.
#2423 of 16087 Stealth by jazevedo
Jun 20, 2004 (1:49 am)
I don't understand the desire to be stealth. Unless you happen to race people alot on a daily basis? I've driven a 94 Mustang GT for 7 years so I've never been one to try to impress other people with my car, but as soon as I get my 330i with performance package, you won't find me removing the "badge" or swapping out those awesome 18 inch wheels for some boring 17's to go stealth. I think it's okay to want people to like your car's looks. It's a big purchase, so wanting some turned heads doesn't make a person pathetic in my opinion.#2424 of 16087 by blueguydotcom
Jun 20, 2004 (4:06 am)
Could it be that "stomping the hades" out of other cars is also another way of seeking attention? Dealing with our insecurities? Validating ourselves?Nope, it's like carrying a nuclear weapon. You know if push comes to shove you've got the means to finish off anything that gets started. Beyond that, for road trips nothing beats a car that can cruise in the 90s or 100s with ease.
I spend money redesigning the interior of my house b/c I enjoy living in a beautiful home.
I do that to up the resale value. In fact I'm about to add 200 sq ft to my house for more than aesthetics...when homes are going fo over 400/sq ft you can see the ROI.
Is debadging a model name on the trunk lid another way of seeking attention? I've never understood why people debadge their vehicles. Can't people be happy with want they have?
Actually it's common in europe as people think it's ostentatious to have the badge of the car on display. I'd remove mine but the car is a lease.
BTW, an M5 is easy to spot by the quad exhaust, side gills, and the front fascia.
No gills on the 03 and earlier M5s. That's something BMW has added to the 3 and next gen M5. Bummer. As for the quad tail pipes...most people couldn't tell if the car that sat in front of them at a light had 1 2 or 20 pipes.
I don't understand the desire to be stealth. Unless you happen to race people alot on a daily basis?
Why not just a desire to go unnoticed?
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