Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#16272 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [m6user]
Jun 24, 2013 (5:49 pm)
the new MDX came out this week. All new design. Basically a "supersized" RDX, with the hi-tech AWD, etc. But same basic platform and drivetrain, just more goodies and room.
they do need to hurry up and redesign the TL/TSX (I believe they are combining the 2 into 1 car) into something competitive and exciting. They can then also tweak the ILX (maybe go to the TSX 2.4l engine/6 speed combo).
the TSX-TL (TSL?) can grow a bit, and offer 4 and V6 like the TSX used to. Or, follow the trend and go NA and Turbo.
The ILX is improved this year (content wise). Pretty much they eliminated the base (strippo) model but kept the price close.
so, there is hope now that they did the "big" car, and both SUVs. The other sedans are definitely due, since the TSX was done for 2009 so it is on it's 5th year, and TL the 6th.
#16273 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [m6user]
Jun 24, 2013 (6:42 pm)
While I agree the mdx (and its now a new mdx) and rdx sell well, very well they do not sell in numbers to keep the brand alone- look at the sales numbers for every other car they produce and they are mid pack at best in terms of sales- mind you mid pack means massive discounts and minimal If any profit. Honda on the other hand no matter how bad the previous accord and civic looked they stll were near the top of the sales chain. I would also note that when the last civic was being slammed they quickly fixed it because its the real bread and butter of the brand.
Acura is one good redesign away from selling some cars for sure- but they have to redesign a bunch of cars to do that.
Sales numbers tell the story, they sold 200k crvs in 2011 and when they did a redu they were very careful not to mess that up. Something they failed to do with the tsx and TL.
#16274 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [sweendogy]
Jun 24, 2013 (7:21 pm)
means massive discounts and minimal If any profit.
You champion solid research all the time....do you have any information that indicates Acura is making "minimal, if any profit". If they are midpack then everyone below must be in Chapter 11. I think a little exaggeration is being played here.
but they have to redesign a bunch of cars to do that.
Ummhh...no, just a couple. Where do you get a "bunch of cars"? They just totally redesigned the MDX, RDX and RLX. The RDX outsells the BMW X3, the Q5 and the EX37. Nothing midpack there. The MDX is right up there in sales with most of them except the RX. The RX has no little brother to share sales with(yet, NX is coming). If it did the MDX and RX would be pretty close in sales IMO. So saying that all their lines are "midpack" is probably another exaggeration.
They have the ILX which admittedly needs some tweaking. They already have the 2.4l in the sport model of the ILX. They should just make that the base engine with a 6 spd auto. They are apparently ditching the TSX so the only car they really need to redo completely(and with a pleasing design hopefully) is the TL or whatever they are going to call the replacement for the TL/TSX. That's one car....not a bunch of cars.
#16275 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [m6user]
Jun 25, 2013 (5:27 am)
M6user, why even go the distant in debating someone who looks at one side of the Balance Sheet.
#16276 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [fedlawman]
Jun 25, 2013 (6:47 am)
The MDX is the only Acura worth a look in its segment right now, and even it is overdue for a refresh.
As someone else already mentioned, the redesigned 2014 MDX has just been released in the last week or so. It looks like a 5/4 version of the RDX, but that's not a bad thing based on current RDX sales.
YTD sales of the RDX as of May month end were up 122.1% over the same period in 2012. 18,177 units vs. 8,183 last year!
I applaud Acura for trying something different with the original RDX and using a turbocharged 4-cylinder, but buyers in this segment want smooth V6 power. Just like the Mazda CX-7, a high-performance compact/upscale CUV is interesting in theory but the reality doesn’t quite cut it.
The MDX was definitely due for a significant update after seven years with little change. I test drove a 2012 MDX last November when I was in the market for a 3-row CUV and I still chose the 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT. The MDX stickered for $44k and the CX-9 stickered for $39k and the CX-9 had more features, better handling and the interior materials and assembly quality were also on part with the Acura. The lack of a FWD version of the MDX was also a negative.
The ‘real’ price difference also made my decision much easier. This was in 11/2012 and I could barely get the 2012 MDX for $2500 off sticker (around $41,500). My CX-9 stickered for $38,785 and I drove it off the lot for $29,706 plus sales tax! I paid cash for the CX-9, but probably would have leased the MDX if I had picked it. Grandma was generous in her will, but not THAT generous!
Back to the current and near-future of Acura….the demise of the TSX will take a sedan AND wagon out of the lineup. Will the ILX, TLX and RLX sedans and RDX and MDX crossovers be enough to keep the brand viable and return it to actual relevance?
Then again, Buick is doing well with less- a compact sedan (Verano), a sporty/performance-oriented mid-size sedan (Regal) and near-full-size sedan (LaCrosse) along with a large Crossover (Enclave) and mini-crossover (Encore). In particular, the Encore is a joke compared to the RDX and the LaCrosse is no RLX. But somehow, Buick is more desirable than Acura to most buyers….
#16277 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [igozoomzoom]
Jun 25, 2013 (6:57 am)
"Buick is more desirable than Acura to most buyers"….
oh really? I am pretty sure Honda was not begging the Goverment for $50 million to keep them a float during the financial meltdown. And please dont get me wrong, I am not throwing insults, just facts.
#16278 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [m6user]
Jun 25, 2013 (9:15 am)
well M6 - i am the champion for research or atleast I do want a base for strong commentary as opposed to random thoughts.. case in point- the 2013 TL SHAWD with tech pack, we can mosltly agree would be a good example to use- it has a MSRP of over 44k, invoice of 41,6 and according to true car for my area (use 02144) you can get it for 39,588 (3 dealers willing to do this deal) - thats over a 10% discount- the BMW 328 is down 4%, the Audi down 6 and ATS Caddy is 3%.. i just dropped some knowledge on you. I understand you cannot truly tell what they are making or losing on these cars but it tells you something when it comes to discounting and fact is they are not making as much (could be losing?) as they would like given the above figures. second paragraph above- Again as i stated the 2 SUVS sell well, but lets remember how many MDXs are they selling?? 50k last year mdx - very good year -vs the x5s 44,445- the rdx 29,520 again very good year as they avg around 15k since inception the bmw x3 35,173[. BMW sells 100k 3 series in the states vs the tls 33k -- so are they really beating them by that much to justify a TL that sells a third of the 3 series?? lets add in the tsx 28,865 sales from 2012.. so 2 car lines make up HALF of 3 series sales. Acura no longer sells (haha) the ZDX-- they sold 379 RL for 2012. 379 wonder what the margins on the balance sheet on that one are (was). (all numbers above are US numbers).
I stand by my statements from 5 years ago- they need a convertable, a sports coupe, a midlevel sedan with looks, a flagship people want and a supercar (which is comming).. Thats a bunch in my estimation maybe we have differ thoughts on what is alot but when we are talking half a line of cars its alot.
and for billy both sides of the balance sheet need to equal out to make it balance sheet.
#16279 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [igozoomzoom]
Jun 25, 2013 (9:20 am)
My prior ride was an 2005 Abyss Blue Acura TL. Other than not so good in the snow (until I bought it snow shoes), what a great all around ride! Simple, handsome exterior, I still think it looks good. Power, handling, good ride, decent mpg, nice interior, well built and reliable. 6.5 years, 85,000 trouble free, Zaino-shiny miles.
When the '09 came out, I was pretty shocked and upset at the path the Acura stylists had taken. While I may be no arbiter of style, I was fairly sure Acura was going to take a hit on TL sales. Of course, the Beak being the most obvious flaw. But the rest of the car just seemed overwrought and heavy-looking to me.
Talking to Acura rep at the New England Auto Show, the first thing he noted was that the beak could be painted to make it less obtrusive. Now, there's a selling point...
We've had several Acura's in my family, nothing but good experiences. I hope that they can reclaim the prior gen TL's glory. And, I'm not sure the RLX will be the answer to anyone's question. Hopefully, a good car, but the styling, IMHO, not so much.
#16280 of 16984 Re: Infiniti G37 Journey vs. Acura TL 'Base' [igozoomzoom]
Jun 25, 2013 (9:26 am)
This isn't the forum to talk lease price's, this is to talk about the cars. The other forums will give you what people are getting the cars for. I found the RDX forum very handy for my cousin, he was able to get a great deal on one, from the posting on the correct Forum.