Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 8:41 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#16247 of 16982 Re: More maintenance on diesel [graphicguy]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
Jun 17, 2013 (7:36 am)
There's not just a financial incentive for owning a small car in Europe. If you've ever driven in a fairly large European city, you know that parking can be an absolute nightmare. Finding a parking place for even a midsize sedan can be a challenge, but you can often find on-street parallel parking that you can squeeze a tiny car into. I had a Nissan Micra when I was in the London area a few years ago, which was awful on motorways (drive to Newcastle = not fun), not great on "a"' roads, but great for tight parking spots and tiny "b" roads.
Same sometimes when living out in the sticks. My ex in-laws lived way out, and it was a 10-mile jaunt on a mostly dirt road with giant hedgerows on either side, and the road itself was wide enough for about 1.5 vehicles. If you met an oncoming vehicle, you had to pull off til the passenger side of the vehicle was pretty firmly against the hedgerow. So, my ex in-laws, flush with money, owned a tiny vehicle for those purposes.
#16248 of 16982 Re: More maintenance on diesel [ivan_99]
Jun 17, 2013 (7:45 am)
I'm not certain how well diesels will play in the ELLPS category, specifically the "Performance" portion, but the lowly VW definitely had the NVH within range of near-luxury specs.
Can understand their use in Europe, but wonder why some might want a diesel in an ELLPS in the U.S. Unless travel and commutes pass truck stops, then not easy to find diesel.
I have a JD tractor with a diesel engine and there are only 2 gas stations in an 8 mile radius that sell diesel. Of course, I pick up the fuel in 5 gallon containers. One thing that future diesel car owners should know is that the area around the pumps, concrete pavement, pump handle, everything is oily, messy and dirty. Make sure you have extra paper towels to clean your hands, and maybe shoe bottoms, in case the gas station does not have same in nearby dispenser.
#16249 of 16982 Re: More maintenance on diesel [kirstie_h]
Jun 17, 2013 (8:27 am)
True, parking spaces are smaller. Even turn radii in places like parking garages can be just insane. I remember one in Cologne - there was a post in the middle of exit curve with a rainbow of colors from paint transfers.
#16250 of 16982 Re: More maintenance on diesel [kirstie_h]
Jun 18, 2013 (5:57 am)
I used to drive in Manchester quite a bit. Not only is parking crazy, they park any way they want, wrong side, pointed the wrong direction. Of course, I saw quite a few fender benders as a result.
I concur with Dino....Euro drivers don't drive small cars because they want to, or out of some misguided sense of environmentalism. They drive them because there's either no room for a more comfortable car, or they can't park them.
#16251 of 16982 Re: More maintenance on diesel [xrunner2]
Jun 18, 2013 (6:02 am)
Those of us in the U.S. can't find the financial value equation to support diesels. Plus, we like high revving motors. Diesels do have good low end torque, but run out of steam quickly. They'll never be more than a small niche here. Hybrids, plug-in hybrids, clean gas engines do as well, mostly better than diesels.
I saw a study recently stating that 50% of U.S. cars will be some form of hybrid or an electric car by 2025. That's only 12 years from now. Diesels won't have a place at that table.
#16252 of 16982 Re: More maintenance on diesel [graphicguy]
Jun 19, 2013 (3:39 pm)
I forget who, but someone wrote an article recently saying that the Electric car was just about dead, and for certain a dead-end technology we've sunk billions into and made little progress in the last couple of decades.
Guess it depends which studies you read.
#16253 of 16982 Got to see the new Infiniti Q50 and the Lexus IS350
Jun 20, 2013 (8:03 am)
Yesterday, our local Infiniti store had a "party" of sorts for the 2014 Q50. Food, drink, customized wine glasses and a 4MB thumb drive key-chain were the "Thanks for coming" gifts offered to this -- public invited -- coming out party for the new Q50.
Overall, I would say the event was under-attended. Although there was some mention of the event in the local Cincinnati newspaper, no special invitation to current Infiniti owners was sent out (we have a 2011 FX35 coming off lease in about 6 months).
Present at the event: the Infiniti dealership sales team, one factory rep and one "marketing rep" (a representative of a company hired by Infiniti to test the Q50 against an Audi A4 and a BMW 3 series.) My wife and I stayed for about an hour (of the four hour show) -- a "pre-production" Q50S w/AWD fully optioned was on display and we were encouraged to try out the front and rear seats and especially to get behind the wheel. The car had been used throughout the day to train the reps -- and it had been, according to the factory rep, driven hard by some of the more adventurous Infiniti sales team members.
The car -- no matter if you think it is attractive or not -- is different looking (by far) from the pictures many of us have seen in print and on-line. My impression of the in-person view is that the Q50 exterior is beautiful. The interior is Audi-nice -- which is about as high of a compliment as I can give for anyone's automotive interior rendering.
The dash, the electronics, the gauges, pedals, switch gear, etc etc etc are all "jewel-like" -- the interior is a major upgrade over even the current M cars -- in fact, the new Q50 has to be the nicest Infiniti (inside and out) ever.
My wife -- a conservative attorney, not subject to hyper-ventalating -- remarked "this may very well be a game changer for Infinti." My comment -- written here previously -- to the factory rep was that Infinti will know it has "arrived" when Car & Driver, et al, proclaim the BMW 3 series as "the German Infiniti," since, thus far, the praise heaped on Infiniti's G cars goes something like "Infiniti's G37, the Japanese BMW."
We'll know if Infiniti has knocked it out of the park when the shoe is on the other foot.
The Q50 according to the marketing representative was track-tested against an Audi A4 2.0T with sport package and against a BMW 328i (with x-drive) also with sport package.
Now, at first blush, this seems like an unfair comparison: the Infiniti has a 325+ HP V6, HUGE brakes (with 4-piston stoppers on the front) and sport everything. By comparison, the two Germans were equipped with their manufacturer's turbo 4s and sport packages.
One look at the specs of the three compared cars, and the Germans appear totally out-gunned. It's no wonder, then, that the Infiniti Q50S out accelerated, out handled -- out ran, overall -- the boys from the Fatherland. I asked the Infiniti factory rep why they didn't compare the Q50 to an Audi S4 or a BMW 335, since the specifications of the Infiniti would seem to call for the German hot rods to be able to call it a fair fight.
The answer from the Infiniti factory rep was that they compared similar sized cars, similar "class" cars, similarly equipped (lux options) cars at the same price points. For the Germans to be completely equipped and comparable to the Infiniti would have meant checking off the S4 and 335 variants of the Audi and BMW respectively.
Infinti reckons -- apparently -- that a $51,000+ Q50S AWD can be compared against an Audi A4 or BMW 3 series only if the Audi and BMW are equipped with their turbo 4-cylinders. The apples to apples comparison would require the $51,000 Q50S to be compared with an Audi or BMW that would cost between $10,000 and $12,000 more.
Infiniti hopes (I assume) that Automobile, Car & Driver, Motor Trend and Road & Track will see the light and only test the Q50 against other cars based on price. Based on my years of reading these enthusiasts magazines, I'd wager the Q50 will be compared to S4's and 335i's and price be damned.
However, against what can be had from a German sports sedan for $51,000, there's little doubt in my mind that the $51,000 Infiniti Q50 will kick their butts.
The factory rep said the target buyer is someone who will consider an Audi A4 or BMW 3 and the new Lexus IS. "Not so much comparison is likely to happen with the Q50 against the Cadillac ATS or the Mercedes C," so says the factory rep.
After absorbing about as much as one person can, without a test drive, we then went over about three doors to the Lexus dealer where a new IS 350 F-Sport AWD was on-display. Like the Q50, the IS350 looks different in person -- but unlike the Q50, the IS 350 is LESS attractive (to me, at least) in person -- yet there is something that MAY make the 350 more attractive: its price. A well optioned 2014 Lexus IS 350 AWD F-Sport was $48,000 including shipping. Infiniti may need to consider sub-venting their lease offerings -- since the IS350 does seem to be a worthy rival.
In pictures, the IS's interior wins -- in person, it appears more "industrial" and, for me that translates to, less attractive -- your mileage may differ.
We're at a point-of-inflection here folks -- two mighty fine cars have power-slided onto the scene. Updated Audis and BMW's better be in the queue REAL SOON.
#16254 of 16982 Re: Got to see the new Infiniti Q50 and the Lexus IS350 [markcincinnati]
Jun 20, 2013 (8:04 am)
Good to hear from you, Mark.
Please post your impressions once you drive the Q50?
It is on my radar ....
#16255 of 16982 Re: Got to see the new Infiniti Q50 and the Lexus IS350 [markcincinnati]
Jun 20, 2013 (10:17 am)
Nice to hear from you mark as always!