Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#16200 of 16984 Re: 328 diesel [dino001]
Jun 10, 2013 (5:02 pm)
Dino good response given the source. Misinformed and old data never a good mix when talking cars on this board. Going to be interesting how this new go around with D cars in the market- Chevy vw BMW trying to make it more mainstream. I've never ridden or drove in a D before- but given the reviews of the prev 335d I would love to.
Btw at local bmw dealer they have 3 2014 wagons on the website- cheapests one is over 54k and runs to 57 and change- wow
#16201 of 16984 Re: 328 diesel [sweendogy]
Jun 10, 2013 (5:56 pm)
Yes, wow. At least that makes sense. Not the price, it's outrageous, of course, but given who buys these, it's people who are much more particular and simply can afford it. No $399 per month crowd, no leader ads, rather you see most conveniences, some sport or appearance stuff, too. Unfortunately, BMW charges arm and leg, but they can, cause nobody else sells those, so you got to pay what they ask.
#16202 of 16984 Re: 328 diesel [dino001]
Jun 10, 2013 (6:09 pm)
2 had the m sport pack and all the other goodies - except manual -
#16203 of 16984 Re: 2014 TL Special Edition [dino001]
Jun 10, 2013 (7:48 pm)
I heard there were some bribery scandals in Honda corporate, as dealers were trying to buy their consideration for more attractive lines and models.
That was back in the 80's and early 90's - a great book about the subject is "Arrogance and Accords" and was written by a low level regional sales rep from Honda Corporate. Quite the insiders view of the car world and the greed it spawned.
Remember, this was back in the day when there weren't enough Accords (and Civics) to go around, all dealers had the 'markup' tag on them and there was the voluntary import restrictions agreed to by the major Japanese auto makers (so as to give the Big 3 a fighting chance).
Many of the senior sales executives at Honda were convicted. A few dealers, too, but mostly they provided the necessary evidence to the US Justice Dept to help nail the Honda folks.
#16204 of 16984 Re: 328 diesel [sweendogy]
Jun 11, 2013 (4:57 am)
Sounds right. The manual is no longer available with wagon.
#16205 of 16984 More maintenance on diesel
Jun 11, 2013 (9:33 am)
I was challenged here some time ago to produce evidence of modern diesel needing more maintenance. At the time I could not produce it, although I heard that assertion multiple times from people who know more about cars than I do. Now I have it - BMW will pay for its gasoline engines oil changes every 15K/2 years, while for its new diesel (328d) the period is 10K/1 year. That is tangible evidence that modern diesel engine requires more attention. Oil change is usually just a tip of the iceberg. I'm reasonably confident there is more. Nothing comes free. Diesel engines used to be very insensitive to fuel, now they are very sensitive (due to clean diesel), which mean any kind of impurities will adversely affect durability and service - in turn I'll expect more extensive work required to keep them up. It's all exact opposite to what's used to be. Old diesels were clunky, noisy, stinky and slow, but super durable and resistant to abuse. Many were naturally aspirated. Modern diesels are quiter, smoother, faster, all are turbocharged. As and engineer, I can say with some authority, there was a price somewhere. I'm guessing (just a man's opinion) it will be in lifespan and service. I'd not be surprised if their useful life came close to their gasoline counterparts and milion milers were things of the past.
#16206 of 16984 Re: 2014 TL Special Edition [robr2]
Jun 11, 2013 (9:38 am)
It's not just Honda all of the Asian manufactures have it, even the Koreans. Since Lexus is so successful in the luxury and they do not offer a ordering system foe customers how long do you think the Europeans will offer it?
#16207 of 16984 Re: More maintenance on diesel [dino001]
Jun 11, 2013 (9:42 am)
If BMW is offering 4yr/50K free maintenance then what is the problem? I would suspect that owners of a 328d would follow manufactures recommendations on oil changes once the 4/50 is over with. Whether it is 5K miles or 7500 miles. Since there is no info on this as of yet.
#16208 of 16984 Re: 2014 TL Special Edition [flightnurse]
Jun 11, 2013 (10:12 am)
To the kingdom come - well perhaps at least in forseable future. It's completely different mindset. They do that anyway for their domestic markets - almost nobody buys BMW or Benz from a dealer's lot over there. The only reason for them to depart from that mindset is if they want to increase volumes and drop the price even further. Right now BMW's price sheet in the US market is about 5 pages for each model. In Germany it is a 50 page book. Three, soon four engine versions here for (non-M) sedan, nine version there (four gasoline: 316i, 320i, 328i, 335i, five diesel:316d, 318d, 320d, 325d, 330d) and that's just a start. They sell a lot more a'la carte options than here. Germans joke that base Mercedes or BMW doesn't even have a side mirror, because it comes in so many options.
Of course, prices reflect that, too. We are lucky here to pay much less, but it is definitely at expense of choice.
BTW, it seems you were on something in your early guesses of diesel coming as 320d. Based on published figures from here and there, it looks they simply took theirs 320d and renamed it 328d for US market, probably to justify price above 328i. A bit cheating, but it may be the US thing, where if you sell 320d at price above 328i people may simply not appreciate it. Too many issues with market positioning. Europeans know they have to pay much more for "equivalent" (whatever that means) diesels, it may take some time to break that news to Americans.
#16209 of 16984 Re: More maintenance on diesel [flightnurse]
Jun 11, 2013 (10:14 am)
The problem is post "free" period. Some people keep their cars longer than three years. The allure of diesels has always been their long life. If you trade every three years, of course no problem for you, just the next guy.