Last post on Dec 12, 2013 at 7:09 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#15956 of 16985 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 12, 2013 (8:58 am)
Dino, the engine in the 328d is a 2 liter 180hp, 280 lbs, BMW was going to call it 320d, but changed it to 328d. The car will only come with the 8 spd auto, which will work very well with the engine. BMW has been VERY tight lipped about the MPG of the car, however, many have guessed that mid 40's is doable on the highway, and mid 30's in town. This engine will go in the Wagon as well as the X3. Road and Track has driven the car and they were impressed, it was a short drive, I'm sure a full report will be out soon.
The only way to make up the price difference is to hold on to the car and drive the wheels off it. Currently diesel in phoenix is .40 cents less than premium. Do I expect it to stay like this, no, but the price fluxuates enough that it doesn't bother me. I have owned three diesel cars/trucks in my past 1986 MB SDL, and 1981 Chevy Suburban diesel and 1996 ram truck 2500 with the cummins diesel.. Both cars were driven well into the 200K miles range the truck 175K before it was sold.. The modern diesels have taken care of the short comings of those diesels.
Diesel's are not for everybody, just like Lexus, BMW and Audi's are not for everybody.
#15957 of 16985 Re: New 328d [flightnurse]
Apr 12, 2013 (11:03 am)
180 hp for diesel is a lot. I think calling it 328d is appropriate here, as the 280 lb-ft torque is even larger than 328i (much shorter though, of course). IMHO the renaming to 328d is also a tell regarding the expected price. If past history is to guide us, it is reasonable to expect price differential similar to that between E90-based 335d and 335i.
The 45 mpg is now mentioned on their website. I remain slightly skeptical, but if BMW learned VW lesson, perhaps it will be more accurate. VW made a huge blunder preanouncing in big letters over 50 mpg on the new Jetta and delivering nowhere near that number after EPA testing. I was joking that they must have mixed up kilometers per imperial gallon with mpg. It wasn't that bad, but the blunder was obvious. The embarrasment was so big that VW challenged their users to a survey on real life numbers. Talking spin doctors - Joe from Ohio says he got 56 mpg, so should you!
I also heard that EPA mpg number is based not just on real testing, but also on extrapolation calculations based on that testing. It is basically is a good predictor for traditional gas engines, but it reportedly completely breaks down on hybrids (overestimates mpg) and has some significant flaws on diesels (presumable underestimates). I don't know if that is really true, but it would make sense why some hybrids are so off when it comes to the mileage.
Many immediately smelled big conspiracies and foul play, but to me a botched methodology due to using calculations outside of their intended class of problem (happens all the time in engineering), seem much more reasonable explanation for the blunder. I simply don't think Toyota, Ford, or Honda were purposly misleading consumers. They simply run tests and calcs according to EPA guidelines, but those turned to be wrong for new technology.
I agree with your last statement - diesels are not for everybody. They definitely have their place in personal vehicle market (e.g. taxi cabs, SUVs, pickup trucks), especially for those traveling often large distances at constant speeds. American aversion was a bit overdone. However, they are not cure for cancer, either.
I wonder how much more 328d will cost. If they misprice it, they may kill it before it shows up.
#15958 of 16985 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 12, 2013 (5:43 pm)
Guys a with a little help from google you can get most of the info
I think the d will be an interesting car- but the volume will come from the reg 328- the real question on the whole bmw line is how long they will be able to Charge so much more for less car - better options for 40k- I mean even the ugly TL has a sh-t load more standard, and can be had for a massive discount- awd and is larger and more powerful and will run a lot more with less maintence for thousands less then the avg 328- now we all know most 3s are leased but for those who keep cars 5 years why would you go new bmw?
I'm still amazed at some of the non standard features on a sudo lux car- it's amazing.
#15959 of 16985 Re: New 328d [sweendogy]
Apr 13, 2013 (7:34 am)
They have been able to charge more for "less car" (using your definition anyway) for fifty years now, so I don't know - perhaps another fifty years?
#15960 of 16985 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 13, 2013 (7:54 am)
The definition is fact, just look at the Msrps -and what comes standard z
#15961 of 16985 The People Who . . .
Apr 13, 2013 (1:08 pm)
end up driving these things these days are so far from what BMW used to be that it's a sociology study. BMW is now a volume seller of vehicles to whomever can be convinced to buy (or more likely, lease) them. The enthusiasts who built the brand are no longer necessary.
The door's over there -- don't let it hit you on the way out.
As usual, I was a day late and a dollar short. By the time I was able to afford a BMW (actually purchased, to keep) things were headed down the chute. They don't miss me, but I sometimes pine for what might have been.
#15962 of 16985 Re: New 328d [sweendogy]
Apr 13, 2013 (1:32 pm)
I meant to say, "stuff" is not everything. It is possible to sell "more car" with less "stuff". Lotus would be an example. My point BMW has always been more expensive in relation to Acura, Lexus, or Audi. They have always got away with it. Will they in the future? Only time will tell.
#15963 of 16985 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 13, 2013 (9:25 pm)
Dino when it comes to MPG the diesel engine will make more MPG as the engine get miles. In regards to the VW, when new the Golf, Jetta and other VW cars with the TDI get good miles when new, however, the more miles on the engine the better the MPG, on the Diesel forum people post their real world MPG and it is amazing to see the difference. I'm thinking the same will be said with the 328d, put 10-15K on the engine and a true mid 40s on the highway would be doable. The true value of the diesel is not to own it for 3 years (lease) and then turn it in, but to own it for 10 yrs.
In regards to price, I would assume base would be around 38-40K. It will be interesting to see where MB will price the C class diesel and GLK diesel. AS well as the Audi A4 Diesel, and from what I read the Audi TDI will have more HP 180hp and 240lbs... An interesting time for diesels in the US.
#15964 of 16985 BMW-ness Re: The People Who . . . [cdnpinhead]
Apr 15, 2013 (4:18 am)
I really wanted a BMW Bavaria, in 1972.
Really, really wanted one – and could afford one.
I was overruled by my then wife.
[ Bought a Volvo. ]
In mid-2011 I ordered a 335, for European Delivery.
It still had enough BMW-ness for me. Then.
I do NOT see a BMW that will likely tempt me when the lease is up, later this year.
‘down the chute’ in 2 years?
Just one data point . . .
#15965 of 16985 Re: BMW-ness Re: The People Who . . . [rayainsw]
Apr 15, 2013 (7:30 am)
ray....I concur with you. The "new" BMWs just aren't "doing it" for me. I have no desire for a diesel. While their 4 cyl turbos are interesting, they sort of fall down on the NVH scale.
They keep moving ever so further away from the "sport" part of sports sedans/coupes.