Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#15950 of 16984 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 11, 2013 (5:10 pm)
I have nothing to add to this besides my thanks- excellent post- interesting when someone runs the numbers- and comes up with a value creative post.
#15951 of 16984 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 11, 2013 (5:16 pm)
Well said & well thought out my friend - as always!
#15952 of 16984 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 11, 2013 (7:45 pm)
I initially thought BMW will bring 320d. It is actually bringing 328d. . .
I've been anxiously awaiting the introduction of a BMW diesel that was more representative of what's on offer in the rest of the world. This is a start, but it only comes with an automatic transmission, according to the on-line Roundel piece I read a few days ago.
All I want is a small diesel in a well-made car with a manual transmission.
Or, as Charles Shultz put it, I could flap my arms and fly to the moon.
#15953 of 16984 Re: New 328d [cdnpinhead]
Apr 11, 2013 (7:56 pm)
All I want is a small diesel in a well-made car with a manual transmission.
A colleague recently purchased a Passat TDI manual and loves it...or a Mazda 6? Not in BMW league but I'd still classify as well-made.
#15954 of 16984 Re: New 328d [cdnpinhead]
Apr 12, 2013 (4:37 am)
Beware what you wish for. I love manual transmissions, all but one car I have had were MT, but IMHO if there is a case of AT, it is small diesel engine. MT is least suitable for small diesel engines. Short rev range of the engine turns the driving into constant shifting for shifting's sake. Unlike modern gasoline engine (which is very flexible in both low and high rev range), diesel engine makes it really miserable on driver to be in a wrong gear. It either shakes the car violently (too high gear for the revs) or drops the torque of the cliff making passing or merging really scary if you need to execute 2-second gear upshift in the middle of the maneuver. On to of that, in city driving you feel you end up shifing up and down on 5-10 mph speed differentials, so you don't those low vibrations from the engine compartment. How do I know all of that? I drove similarly sized and powered A4 and Peugeout 406, both with manual transmissions. Both of those were considered one of the best diesel engines of their generations.
Multigear automatic (like 8-speed) is absolutely transmission of choice for a diesel. IMHO, of course.
#15955 of 16984 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 12, 2013 (4:35 am)
I drove similarly sized and powered A4 and Peugeout 406, both with manual transmissions. Both of those were considered on of best diesel engines of their generations.
Agree with all of that although small diesels can be OK with an MT. Torque comes in very low down so they'll happily pull you up a cliff in what your mind tells you is too high a gear. ATs are better though. I have a Volvo S60 D5 (185) Geartronic. Nice combination.
I had 2x Peugeot 406's. Probably the best riding cars I've ever had. That was when Peugeot made great chassis/suspension set-ups. No more, it seems. That Pug diesel and the VW Group 1.9 TDi PD engines are the stuff of legend and probably did more to move Europe to small diesels than any other. The 130bhp 1.9 TDi PD in my old Skoda Fabia vRS was a brilliant combination in a light car, and the 6MT was just built for playing with the mountain of torque the engine produced. Happy days.
#15956 of 16984 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 12, 2013 (8:58 am)
Dino, the engine in the 328d is a 2 liter 180hp, 280 lbs, BMW was going to call it 320d, but changed it to 328d. The car will only come with the 8 spd auto, which will work very well with the engine. BMW has been VERY tight lipped about the MPG of the car, however, many have guessed that mid 40's is doable on the highway, and mid 30's in town. This engine will go in the Wagon as well as the X3. Road and Track has driven the car and they were impressed, it was a short drive, I'm sure a full report will be out soon.
The only way to make up the price difference is to hold on to the car and drive the wheels off it. Currently diesel in phoenix is .40 cents less than premium. Do I expect it to stay like this, no, but the price fluxuates enough that it doesn't bother me. I have owned three diesel cars/trucks in my past 1986 MB SDL, and 1981 Chevy Suburban diesel and 1996 ram truck 2500 with the cummins diesel.. Both cars were driven well into the 200K miles range the truck 175K before it was sold.. The modern diesels have taken care of the short comings of those diesels.
Diesel's are not for everybody, just like Lexus, BMW and Audi's are not for everybody.
#15957 of 16984 Re: New 328d [flightnurse]
Apr 12, 2013 (11:03 am)
180 hp for diesel is a lot. I think calling it 328d is appropriate here, as the 280 lb-ft torque is even larger than 328i (much shorter though, of course). IMHO the renaming to 328d is also a tell regarding the expected price. If past history is to guide us, it is reasonable to expect price differential similar to that between E90-based 335d and 335i.
The 45 mpg is now mentioned on their website. I remain slightly skeptical, but if BMW learned VW lesson, perhaps it will be more accurate. VW made a huge blunder preanouncing in big letters over 50 mpg on the new Jetta and delivering nowhere near that number after EPA testing. I was joking that they must have mixed up kilometers per imperial gallon with mpg. It wasn't that bad, but the blunder was obvious. The embarrasment was so big that VW challenged their users to a survey on real life numbers. Talking spin doctors - Joe from Ohio says he got 56 mpg, so should you!
I also heard that EPA mpg number is based not just on real testing, but also on extrapolation calculations based on that testing. It is basically is a good predictor for traditional gas engines, but it reportedly completely breaks down on hybrids (overestimates mpg) and has some significant flaws on diesels (presumable underestimates). I don't know if that is really true, but it would make sense why some hybrids are so off when it comes to the mileage.
Many immediately smelled big conspiracies and foul play, but to me a botched methodology due to using calculations outside of their intended class of problem (happens all the time in engineering), seem much more reasonable explanation for the blunder. I simply don't think Toyota, Ford, or Honda were purposly misleading consumers. They simply run tests and calcs according to EPA guidelines, but those turned to be wrong for new technology.
I agree with your last statement - diesels are not for everybody. They definitely have their place in personal vehicle market (e.g. taxi cabs, SUVs, pickup trucks), especially for those traveling often large distances at constant speeds. American aversion was a bit overdone. However, they are not cure for cancer, either.
I wonder how much more 328d will cost. If they misprice it, they may kill it before it shows up.
#15958 of 16984 Re: New 328d [dino001]
Apr 12, 2013 (5:43 pm)
Guys a with a little help from google you can get most of the info
I think the d will be an interesting car- but the volume will come from the reg 328- the real question on the whole bmw line is how long they will be able to Charge so much more for less car - better options for 40k- I mean even the ugly TL has a sh-t load more standard, and can be had for a massive discount- awd and is larger and more powerful and will run a lot more with less maintence for thousands less then the avg 328- now we all know most 3s are leased but for those who keep cars 5 years why would you go new bmw?
I'm still amazed at some of the non standard features on a sudo lux car- it's amazing.
#15959 of 16984 Re: New 328d [sweendogy]
Apr 13, 2013 (7:34 am)
They have been able to charge more for "less car" (using your definition anyway) for fifty years now, so I don't know - perhaps another fifty years?