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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16252 messages,  Last post on Jun 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1565 of 1626

#15633 of 16252 Re: Lots of talk about the C250 [sweendogy] by dino001

Feb 08, 2013 (7:38 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Feb 08, 2013 7:19 am)
I feel your pain, brother
 
They charge because they can. If they couldn't, they wouldn't. BMW had no charge for leather in last couple of years of E9x sedans and wagons - not because they were so nice, but because they couldn't charge and still get target sales. F30 came and extra charge for leather is back.

#15634 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [dino001] by graphicguy

Feb 08, 2013 (7:44 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Feb 08, 2013 6:02 am)
dino....I always seem to look at Benzes when I'm in the market. That's about as far as I get given they really aren't all that sporty of a drive (until you get into the really high buck AMG versions). And, I try to understand the allure of them.
 
Perhaps I'm only looking at the "run of the mill" MBs like the Cs and Es. I just can't make that leap. They aren't built any better than a comparable Audi or BMW. They certainly don't perform better than either of those. And, these days, not even the Japanese can claim tech or reliability superiority over Audi or BMW.
 
For the same, usually less money, you can get something that's better, in most ways, from BMW or Audi.
 
I'll have to assume that pushing the Mercedes marque down the ladder with the CLA is taking a page out of GM's marketing book. "Hook them on a low priced Chevy (in Mercedes' case, a CLA), and move them up the model ladder".
 
That Mercedes Star, at that price point, is going to open up their market to perhaps one that they wouldn't necessarily want.
 
Hope to see the CLA at the auto shows. At least on my computer monitor, it looks pretty slick. But, so does a BMW 1 series or an A3, its competition.

#15635 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [graphicguy] by flightnurse

Feb 08, 2013 (9:36 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 08, 2013 7:44 am)
I'll have to assume that pushing the Mercedes marque down the ladder with the CLA is taking a page out of GM's marketing book. "Hook them on a low priced Chevy (in Mercedes' case, a CLA), and move them up the model ladder".
 
Aren't BMW and Audi doing the same thing with the 1 series and A3 ? Acura is doing it with the ILX too.

#15636 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [flightnurse] by graphicguy

Feb 08, 2013 (11:55 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Feb 08, 2013 9:36 am)
FN.....good point. I guess the lux marks see gold to be mined where Accords and Camry sometimes play.

#15637 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [graphicguy] by sweendogy

Feb 08, 2013 (12:20 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 08, 2013 11:55 am)
Camry and accord comment - true pricing might be the same- but again how can we call these cars Elpps- they don't offer much lux in standard form and performance is less then the mentioned accord.

#15638 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [graphicguy] by flightnurse

Feb 12, 2013 (12:29 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 08, 2013 11:55 am)
This is a great question, so would you buy a Acura ILX or a fully loaded Camry?

#15639 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [sweendogy] by flightnurse

Feb 12, 2013 (12:37 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Feb 08, 2013 12:20 pm)
Sweeny the typical buyer will not understand what ELLPS means and they really do not care. Most buyers buy by monthly payment, and if they can afford a Camry XLE with all the bells and dodad's then they will buy it. Why do you think that most dealership bring out that "worksheet" and ask you what you want to spend a month.
 
Car segments are changing, and some cars in which YOU do not think fit in the traditional ELLPS, but they do. It will be interesting in the next 3-5 yrs what will be considered ELLPS.

#15640 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [flightnurse] by graphicguy

Feb 12, 2013 (5:38 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Feb 12, 2013 12:29 am)
FN.....I can't even remember the last time I drove a Camry....at least 2-3 generations ago. And, I've never driven an ILX. So, not sure if I can answer your question.
 
Would I look at them? Sure! But, as most of us here are, I'm a car fanatic. I'm interested in all cars.
 
Generally speaking, the customer for a Camry probably wouldn't consider any Mercedes for no other reason than they think maintenance and repairs are too costly and frequent. That perception can be debated. But, perception is reality in most people's minds.
 
I know the 2 years I've owned my 335i, I haven't spent one nickel on maintenance due to BMW's 4 year "no maintenance cost" plan. The GF got a 4 year maintenance plan for the S4 where everything is covered. That was extra cost, and I can't remember what it was. When she asked me about it, it seemed reasonable at the time so it wasn't anything extraordinary.
 
I've had the BMW in once for warranty work. The driver's leather seat had an area that was discoloring. They didn't re-dye it. They actually replaced the entire seat cover. Aside from oil changes and I think a software update they did for IDrive the last time I had the oil changed, that's been in.
 
The GF's S4 has only had an oil change and tire rotation. That's it.
 
Will a Camry be the same? They have a reputation as being trouble free. But, it sure seems like I read about a whole lot more recalls the last couple of years regarding Toyotas, than I hear from Benz, Audi, BMW or Acura.
 
I don't pay much attention to Lexus or Infiniti. So, I don't know if an inordinate amount of recalls extend to those brands or not.
 
I see the CLA's customer as being a young (20s) person not really looking for performance. But, one who's looking for an entre into the German marks and the alleged status they bring to the table (whether that status is real, or imagined).
 
For a little bit more than a Camry, they can have a Mercedes, regardless of whether a CLA is or is not the better performing car.
 
Something tells me you're going to see dealers back load those cars with the crazy wheels, spoilers, etc that make most of us cringe. But, that's the type of customer the CLA will appeal to. Dealers better get ready for a whole new type of tire kickers entering their showrooms once the CLA is released.
 
Personally, I like the looks of the CLA. That might change when I see one in person. But, given that I put a higher priority on overall performance with my lux, I doubt I'll consider a CLA as something that would sit in my garage.
 
I'm betting a Camry SE with a V6 will out handle and out accelerate a CLA. Yet, they won't be cross shopped by that same 20 something.

#15641 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [graphicguy] by flightnurse

Feb 12, 2013 (8:46 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 12, 2013 5:38 am)
Graphic, I believe the CLA will get the AMG treatment, which will give it some performance. I agree that the CLA will bring a whole new type of customer to MB, just like GT-R brought a whole different buyer to the Nissan Dealer. Lots of changes happening and it will be interesting to see how the dealers will change.

#15642 of 16252 Re: Another ELLPS enters the ring.... [graphicguy] by stickguy

Feb 12, 2013 (10:49 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Feb 12, 2013 5:38 am)
the real question though is if the CLA will be grounded to the ground.

Messages Page 1565 of 1626

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