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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1555 of 1610

#15536 of 16087 Re: 320i [dino001] by robr2

Jan 17, 2013 (11:35 am)

Replying to: dino001 (Jan 17, 2013 11:33 am)
320i uses 2 liter turbo with 180 hp 5000 rpm. 328i uses same 2 liter turbo with 240 hp 5000-6000 rpm
 
Same engine, different tuning.
 
I suspect they introduced it only to get better CAFE and to justify even more price hikes on 328 and 335.
 
I think they are introducing this trim in order to increase the selling/leasing price of the 328 and to increase unit sales for bragging rights.
 
One can lease the 328i today at $369. Let's say the 320i leases at $349. Then it gives BMW the room to move the 328i to $399 a month while still offering the frugal buyers the 320i for $50 a month less.

#15537 of 16087 Re: 320i [robr2] by dino001

Jan 17, 2013 (11:41 am)

Replying to: robr2 (Jan 17, 2013 11:35 am)
I know, it is the tuning. But it seems to me, such move will be justifiable, if fuel economy gains are substantial. So far, they are "TBD".
 
I'not a lease buyer (not that I'm against them, just never found one I liked, as wagons don't have same level of subsidy as sedans), so I can't comment if $50 per month is ther right level. Leases can be done at almost any payment level, what counts for me is the sticker and street price. Loaded 320i at 45 grand, almost as much as my E90 328 was, is jumping the shark.

#15538 of 16087 Re: 320i [dino001] by robr2

Jan 17, 2013 (1:50 pm)

Replying to: dino001 (Jan 17, 2013 11:41 am)
Loaded 320i at 45 grand, almost as much as my E90 328 was, is jumping the shark.
 
If you tick any boxes on any BMW, the prices become ridiculous. $50K + for a 335? Ridiculous IMHO.

#15539 of 16087 Re: 320i [robr2] by nyccarguy

Jan 17, 2013 (2:09 pm)

Replying to: robr2 (Jan 17, 2013 1:50 pm)
Tick a fair share of option boxes & a 335 quickly approaches the mid - upper $50K price tag.

#15540 of 16087 Re: 320i [nyccarguy] by sweendogy

Jan 17, 2013 (7:35 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Jan 17, 2013 2:09 pm)
Yeah it's official - it's jumped the shark- BMW 3 series no longer Ellps -hosts please remove it from the right hand column and add another acura.
 
Lets throw another low lease deal to say affordable to the leasing mass- throw us some "free" wiper blades and a couple of oil changes. Sure its underpowered and has pleather seats, its a bmw. I've been saying it for years bmw makes great drivers cars but they are not cheap- sure they might be the enthusiast choice but for 9/10ths you can save 20% and get a comp car with better technology and more hp. so are you really getting a better car ?

#15541 of 16087 Re: 320i [sweendogy] by nyccarguy

Jan 17, 2013 (9:02 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Jan 17, 2013 7:35 pm)
Buying out my E90 at the end of it's lease seem like a better & better idea;)

#15542 of 16087 Re: Chipping & Tuning [flightnurse] by scwmcan

Jan 18, 2013 (4:42 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Jan 17, 2013 9:19 am)
Partly it is lack of competition, and partly it is because they are some of the best cars in their classes for fuel economy, and I think I am responding even though your comments are probably for Dino. I am a diesel supporter and think the market has been suppressed, I think that if there were more offerings we would probably have around 20-25% of the market being diesel, therefor the current 2% is unrepresentative.

#15543 of 16087 Re: 320i [sweendogy] by habitat1

Jan 18, 2013 (6:15 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Jan 17, 2013 7:35 pm)
sure they might be the enthusiast choice but for 9/10ths you can save 20% and get a comp car with better technology and more hp. so are you really getting a better car ?
 
That's the "better" question that should really have a "for you" attatched to the end, since everyone has their own priorities and preferences. I could cancel my 2014 Cayman S order and get 40% more horsepower for $20k less in a new Corvette. Does that make it "better"? Not for me. The Corvette design, albeit improved, still looks like it has to many legacy Pontiac designers trying to get their two cents into it. And I don't need to spend anything for a car that I don't like to look at.
 
You are an Infiniti G guy - I would have liked to join your camp back in 2004, having had a great 150k experience with my 1995 Nissan Maxima SE. But I was disappointed in the lack of refinement in the Infiniti G35 sedan vs. the TL 6-speed. I had to make the tough compromise of going with a FWD car, but given that it was/has been a daily driver and we have a second home in the snow belt, I accepted the trade off. I certainly respect those that go the other way, and the G37S 6-speed is a damn nice car, but is still just a perplexing notch away from the engine and transmission refinement that I think Infiniti is capable of.
 
Also, let's not forget that Japanese horses are a bit more of the Shetland style than Germany's Clydesdales. The former 335i (haven't driven the new one with a stick), was still the quickest ELLPS on the market, in spite of a 30+/- rated horsepower disadvantage to Infiniti. And as quick as the 450hp/450 ft.lb Corvette is likely to be, I still doubt it will significantly outrun the 911S in spite of a 50hp/125ft lb advantage on paper.

#15544 of 16087 Re: 320i [sweendogy] by dino001

Jan 18, 2013 (6:36 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Jan 17, 2013 7:35 pm)
Sween, I'm afraid the competition will keep up (in terms of pricing). Everything is getting more expensive. Loaded Ford Focus is getting close to 30 grand on the sticker, same goes for many other compacts, loaded Accord crosses 30 grand in a snap, Lexus raised the sticker for its hatchback hybrid by three grand or so without clear increase in its content (don't know too much about this vehicle to say, but saw a headline), so why wouldn't BMW want to charge 40+ grand for its detuned entry level 3-series with couple of options? I bet Infinity will soon come up dreadful with G25 replacement, which will be opportunity to "reset" pricing for it and G37. Even Acura with its traditional value approach, made a move down, but mostly by rebadging and redressing Civic, which I would hardly call an attractive ELLPS. However, ILX is an opportunity to move prices on next TSX up (provided they will they keep the car, I sure hope so).
 
Everything is getting more expensive. We all have to deal with it. Price limits set 10 years ago no longer apply.

#15545 of 16087 Re: 320i [nyccarguy] by dino001

Jan 18, 2013 (6:37 am)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Jan 17, 2013 9:02 pm)
Told you so year ago, didn't I?

Messages Page 1555 of 1610

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