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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16252 messages,  Last post on Jun 19, 2013 at 4:39 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1537 of 1626

#15355 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [graphicguy] by nyccarguy

Dec 12, 2012 (9:30 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Dec 12, 2012 8:22 am)
Like fedlawman said, it is a shame that $30, $40, $50K cars are considered disposable in our society. Many people only see the out of warranty repair cost or maintenance cost & not the cost of depreciation.
 
Today's cars are extremely complex. I have a thought in the back of my mind that I might buy the lease out on my 2011 328xi. If I do so, I'd like to be prepared. So I went & bought some Mobil 1 0W-40, a Mann Filter, & an oil filter wrench. I looked up how to change the oil on an E90 & found plenty of posts & how to videos. Then I get ready, drive my car up on to a 2 x 4 so I can get a look see. And there is a metal plate covering the underside of my engine to get to the oil drain plug. In order to get to it, I'm going to have to now find a way to raise the car. Dealers charge a lot of money to repair & maintain European cars. I really don't know how much less expensive using an independent shop would be. They still have to pay competent mechanics a good wage, pay over head, plus parts.
 
Regarding Porsches. My Mom has had her 2011 Cayenne V6 for almost 2 years. She's racked up over 40K miles already & loves it. Maintenance costs are through the roof though (they wanted 300+ to rotate the tires & another $300+ for an alignment). So much so that she has the maintenance done at our local BMW Dealer.

#15356 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [nyccarguy] by graphicguy

Dec 13, 2012 (9:03 am)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Dec 12, 2012 9:30 am)
nyc....that's crazy costs on your Mom's Cayenne.
 
That said, doing it yourself, unless you have a garage, a lift, specialty tools, etc can prove to be more costly given how the German marques are engineered. I don't know if it's better, or worse. It is more costly, though (as you give a good example of with your foray into changing your own oil).
 
I have an independent guy who's made a good living servicing German cars for the last couple of decades. He has so much business because of the outrageous dealership charges, you have to book him no less than a week in advance...even for a simple oil change.
 
On my 335i, I had him change the oil in-between the "scheduled" free oil changes from BMW. BMW gives a basic oil change for $70-$80. My mechanic charges 1/2 that. But, he also doesn't give me loaner car, doesn't have cappuccino in his waiting room, nor any flat screen TVs to watch while you wait. He does have a little greasy tube TV that looks like a relic from a Walmart Black Friday Special, circa 1985.
 
I haven't turned a wrench on any car for quite some time. Whereas, 15 years ago, I could do a complete tear down of a small block, by myself, in an afternoon.

#15357 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [graphicguy] by stickguy

Dec 13, 2012 (9:14 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Dec 13, 2012 9:03 am)
I could tear one down (assuming you took it out of the car for me!) but I guarantee I would never get it back together again. At least not running. But I always thought it would be fun to get a beater/junker to experiment on. Basically practice with the tools, and see how it all goes together. And then just have the parts taken away in boxes!
 
as to service, if I ever do get an older BMW, there is a very highly regarded indy shop about 3 miles from my house. They are factory trained, very experienced, and supposedly reasonable cost (about what you would pay for any reputable repair shop, and way cheaper than a dealer).
 
they only work on BMW and MB (well, they added Mini now). So I am sure they know what they are looking for before you even show up (all the common failures and gotchas).
 
having them nearby makes me a lot less leery of buying say an E46, and that is where I would go for a PPI.

#15358 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [nyccarguy] by buya

Dec 13, 2012 (3:10 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Dec 12, 2012 9:30 am)
That's about what they want for doing the same thing for LR2 at the dealer here, and it's not included in one of their affordable service plans either.
 
You may find yourself still needing the help of a mechanic after you got the tools and electronic gadget. While it's good to read up and learn the work that might be needed on your car, so you won't get ripped, it's better to let the mechanic do the job because he has more experience than you on the brand (as your post seemed to convey).
 
In my younger days I often thought why can't such mechanically superior European cars be available to everyone to appreciate? Now I see the reason -- repairs and maintenance. The car makers have made their cars affordable to many, but the R & M cost is a reason why some people would take the lease and dump the car when done.
 
It would be wise to shop for a garage that service your BMW. My cars maintained at dealership because the garage guys I used aren't cheaper and not better either. Don't take recommendations for granted, and always price out at dealers and garage both for every job and read the forums for advice. Dealers won't say "let's try this and see", but some garage does, and that could be their ways to milk you out of thousands per try until nothing gets done and you wised up.
 
Good Luck.

#15359 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [buya] by sweendogy

Dec 13, 2012 (6:14 pm)

Replying to: buya (Dec 13, 2012 3:10 pm)
While I have not had a lot of experiance in the matenance aspect of cars- I do have a thought- the g I currently roll in is he longest I've kept a new car- I have had oil changes and breaks done in the car in its 32k miles and 5 years of ownership - while I don't drive a lot and own a low maintence Japanese brand (that was 12k cheaper then it's closest rival) I have learned that dealerships are negotiable - bring in that coupon- tell the service manager you saw the price cheaper- I have and am not ashamed to say I did not pay for the 15k service at 699- I got the tires rotated and oil change for 50bux vs a competitor that they matched- other items I've done ala Cart and also on discount - when they told me it was going to cost 300 per new tires I went to Goodyear and got better tires for half that-
 
The free maintence thing is laughable as an advantage. I'll buy my own wiper blades for 20 bux to save thousands any day.
 
Now only if my Infiniti and the winter gas were on the same page - city mileage has now gone closer to 10 then 20

#15360 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [sweendogy] by nyccarguy

Dec 13, 2012 (8:33 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Dec 13, 2012 6:14 pm)
That's an excellent point too sweendogy. Just like you did for the car, shop around. So many times the "xx,xxx mile service" is nothing more than an oil change with a bunch of "check this, check that..."
 
When the tires were shot and needed to be replaced on my Mom's Cayenne, I bought them from a Good Year place for $189 each including mounting and balancing (it was cheaper than tire rack & you don't even want to know what the dealer wanted to charge). While the car was there, they checked the alignment & noticed it was way off, so I had them align the car for $59.99 + tax.

#15361 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [graphicguy] by nyccarguy

Dec 13, 2012 (8:37 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (Dec 13, 2012 9:03 am)
Like I said, I'm going to try it in between the first oil change (this Tuesday) & my next one. There are a few independent mechanics around here that specialize in BMWs that I will check out just in case I do decide to buy the car out when the lease is up.
 
It is nice to get a loaner car when the car goes in for service. I do have my Prelude as my extra car or if worse comes to worse, I can probably rent a cheap car from enterprise for the day and still make out cheaper than bringing it to certain dealers.

#15362 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [buya] by nyccarguy

Dec 13, 2012 (8:43 pm)

Replying to: buya (Dec 13, 2012 3:10 pm)
I agree completely. I'd like to try it out "just to say I did it" type of thing. I've spent close to $100 already on 7 quarts of Mobil 1 0w40, a plastic pan to catch the oil so I can recycle it (and it doesn't mess my garage floor), a Mann Filter, and a special oil filter wrench before I even put once second of my time into this. I also have 3 children (6, 3 1/2, 1) & work 6 days a week (we are open M-F 7:30 AM to 5:00 PM & Saturday 7:30 AM to Noon).

#15363 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [sweendogy] by habitat1

Dec 14, 2012 (4:49 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Dec 13, 2012 6:14 pm)
The free maintence thing is laughable as an advantage. I'll buy my own wiper blades for 20 bux to save thousands any day.
 
Not sure I follow you. In my comparative shopping of a new 2014 Cayman S vs. 2013 BMW M3, it looks like that in addition to a roughly $14k difference in actual purchase price between the two, the 4/50 free maintenance from BMW would cost roughly $3,500 on the Porsche (40k miles is a big one) using the dealer. If I need new brakes during that time, add another $1,500+ BMW advantage. So that "free" maintenance on an M3 really adds at least $2-3k in favor of BMW to the M3 vs. Cayman S, even assuming I go independent on the Cayman service.
 
As for Infiniti, that was a real joke between a friend of mine here several years ago. I had a 1995 Maxima, he had a 1996 I30. Exactly the same car mechanically, other than mine was a manual, his an automatic. I spent less at the Nissan dealer on service over 8 years and 120k miles than he spent in 7 years and 60k miles. Take Nissan prices for just about everything, multiply them by 1.5 or 2.0 and call them Infiniti prices. And then come up with a bunch of crap that the Infinii "needs", but the Nissan service manager never called for. Hopefully, your dealer experience is a little better than that.

#15364 of 16252 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [habitat1] by stickguy

Dec 14, 2012 (6:52 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Dec 14, 2012 4:49 am)
I have had a 2000 Acura 3.2 TL for about 4 years, and have always taken it to the Honda dealer. they were perfectly happy to service it. I am not even sure what the prices are at the local Acura dealer relative to them. But since until recently I also had 2 Hondas, it was a lot more convenient to get them all serviced at the same place!

Messages Page 1537 of 1626

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