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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1536 of 1609

#15350 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [flightnurse] by fedlawman

Dec 10, 2012 (4:50 pm)

Replying to: flightnurse (Dec 10, 2012 12:38 pm)
All you have to do is look at a new BMW, Audi, Range Rover, etc. to see that the Euro manufacturers obviously dont want the owner servicing the vehicle.
 
We are supposed to buy new from the dealer, drive for 3 or 4 years, then trade in on another new one.

#15351 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [flightnurse] by fedlawman

Dec 10, 2012 (4:53 pm)

Replying to: flightnurse (Dec 10, 2012 12:38 pm)
I drove a W140 S Class for 3 years. it was the last of the great Mercedes tanks IMO. What a fantastic boat!

#15352 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [fedlawman] by flightnurse

Dec 10, 2012 (5:02 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 10, 2012 4:53 pm)
LOL, I didn't like the style of the W140's as much as I did the W126s.

#15353 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [fedlawman] by flightnurse

Dec 10, 2012 (5:04 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 10, 2012 4:50 pm)
That really can be said about any manufacture these days. Our Genesis or our neighbor's new Altama. Yes, you can check all fluid levels and add if needed, but that is really about it.

#15354 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [fedlawman] by graphicguy

Dec 12, 2012 (8:22 am)

Replying to: fedlawman (Dec 10, 2012 4:50 pm)
We are supposed to buy new from the dealer, drive for 3 or 4 years, then trade in on another new one.
 
I concur. I'd even throw the Japanese Lux brands into that mix. They certainly don't want the shadetree mechanic messing with the car.
 
I know I used to do my own tuneups (now, you just change the plugs), oil changes (if you can find the oil filler tube, today), and brake jobs on all of my cars.
 
It's too much of a hassle, now. Many times, it takes specialized tools.
 
They like turning their inventory over new, and 4 years as used, "Dealer Maintained" cars, while you sign the dotted line for a new one.
 
Personally, I'm not that brand loyal. I think the only model I've owned more than once would be an Acura TL and BMW 3 series.
 
All the people I've known that have owned Porsches (3 of them) swear by their reliability and robust build. Can't disagree with them as they seem to stick with Porsches once it's time for a new one.

#15355 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [graphicguy] by nyccarguy

Dec 12, 2012 (9:30 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Dec 12, 2012 8:22 am)
Like fedlawman said, it is a shame that $30, $40, $50K cars are considered disposable in our society. Many people only see the out of warranty repair cost or maintenance cost & not the cost of depreciation.
 
Today's cars are extremely complex. I have a thought in the back of my mind that I might buy the lease out on my 2011 328xi. If I do so, I'd like to be prepared. So I went & bought some Mobil 1 0W-40, a Mann Filter, & an oil filter wrench. I looked up how to change the oil on an E90 & found plenty of posts & how to videos. Then I get ready, drive my car up on to a 2 x 4 so I can get a look see. And there is a metal plate covering the underside of my engine to get to the oil drain plug. In order to get to it, I'm going to have to now find a way to raise the car. Dealers charge a lot of money to repair & maintain European cars. I really don't know how much less expensive using an independent shop would be. They still have to pay competent mechanics a good wage, pay over head, plus parts.
 
Regarding Porsches. My Mom has had her 2011 Cayenne V6 for almost 2 years. She's racked up over 40K miles already & loves it. Maintenance costs are through the roof though (they wanted 300+ to rotate the tires & another $300+ for an alignment). So much so that she has the maintenance done at our local BMW Dealer.

#15356 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [nyccarguy] by graphicguy

Dec 13, 2012 (9:03 am)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Dec 12, 2012 9:30 am)
nyc....that's crazy costs on your Mom's Cayenne.
 
That said, doing it yourself, unless you have a garage, a lift, specialty tools, etc can prove to be more costly given how the German marques are engineered. I don't know if it's better, or worse. It is more costly, though (as you give a good example of with your foray into changing your own oil).
 
I have an independent guy who's made a good living servicing German cars for the last couple of decades. He has so much business because of the outrageous dealership charges, you have to book him no less than a week in advance...even for a simple oil change.
 
On my 335i, I had him change the oil in-between the "scheduled" free oil changes from BMW. BMW gives a basic oil change for $70-$80. My mechanic charges 1/2 that. But, he also doesn't give me loaner car, doesn't have cappuccino in his waiting room, nor any flat screen TVs to watch while you wait. He does have a little greasy tube TV that looks like a relic from a Walmart Black Friday Special, circa 1985.
 
I haven't turned a wrench on any car for quite some time. Whereas, 15 years ago, I could do a complete tear down of a small block, by myself, in an afternoon.

#15357 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [graphicguy] by stickguy

Dec 13, 2012 (9:14 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Dec 13, 2012 9:03 am)
I could tear one down (assuming you took it out of the car for me!) but I guarantee I would never get it back together again. At least not running. But I always thought it would be fun to get a beater/junker to experiment on. Basically practice with the tools, and see how it all goes together. And then just have the parts taken away in boxes!
 
as to service, if I ever do get an older BMW, there is a very highly regarded indy shop about 3 miles from my house. They are factory trained, very experienced, and supposedly reasonable cost (about what you would pay for any reputable repair shop, and way cheaper than a dealer).
 
they only work on BMW and MB (well, they added Mini now). So I am sure they know what they are looking for before you even show up (all the common failures and gotchas).
 
having them nearby makes me a lot less leery of buying say an E46, and that is where I would go for a PPI.

#15358 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [nyccarguy] by buya

Dec 13, 2012 (3:10 pm)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Dec 12, 2012 9:30 am)
That's about what they want for doing the same thing for LR2 at the dealer here, and it's not included in one of their affordable service plans either.
 
You may find yourself still needing the help of a mechanic after you got the tools and electronic gadget. While it's good to read up and learn the work that might be needed on your car, so you won't get ripped, it's better to let the mechanic do the job because he has more experience than you on the brand (as your post seemed to convey).
 
In my younger days I often thought why can't such mechanically superior European cars be available to everyone to appreciate? Now I see the reason -- repairs and maintenance. The car makers have made their cars affordable to many, but the R & M cost is a reason why some people would take the lease and dump the car when done.
 
It would be wise to shop for a garage that service your BMW. My cars maintained at dealership because the garage guys I used aren't cheaper and not better either. Don't take recommendations for granted, and always price out at dealers and garage both for every job and read the forums for advice. Dealers won't say "let's try this and see", but some garage does, and that could be their ways to milk you out of thousands per try until nothing gets done and you wised up.
 
Good Luck.

#15359 of 16087 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [buya] by sweendogy

Dec 13, 2012 (6:14 pm)

Replying to: buya (Dec 13, 2012 3:10 pm)
While I have not had a lot of experiance in the matenance aspect of cars- I do have a thought- the g I currently roll in is he longest I've kept a new car- I have had oil changes and breaks done in the car in its 32k miles and 5 years of ownership - while I don't drive a lot and own a low maintence Japanese brand (that was 12k cheaper then it's closest rival) I have learned that dealerships are negotiable - bring in that coupon- tell the service manager you saw the price cheaper- I have and am not ashamed to say I did not pay for the 15k service at 699- I got the tires rotated and oil change for 50bux vs a competitor that they matched- other items I've done ala Cart and also on discount - when they told me it was going to cost 300 per new tires I went to Goodyear and got better tires for half that-
 
The free maintence thing is laughable as an advantage. I'll buy my own wiper blades for 20 bux to save thousands any day.
 
Now only if my Infiniti and the winter gas were on the same page - city mileage has now gone closer to 10 then 20

Messages Page 1536 of 1609

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