Last post on Dec 13, 2013 at 2:02 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#15324 of 16989 Preferences vs. "Better"
Dec 06, 2012 (1:37 am)
Now if Nissan can shave off 750 pounds from the GT-R I highly doubt you will fine a better car for the money...
That 750 lb "shave" may involve a few hours with my chain saw and end up with something that looks more like a Cayman than a GT-R. No I suspect Nissan will continue to produce a nearly two ton GT-R and be unapologetic for its girth. As they have every right to be.
My preference for a lighter weight, more refined, manual transmission coupe like the new Cayman S over the GT-R is just that, a preference. Most of my time in the driver's seat will be in sub-sonic speeds where nimble handling - and interior design - will be noticed, but the raw power of 545hp will not. Would I like more power? Who among us wouldn't? But if it's a trade off between 0-60 in 4.5 seconds and 2.9 seconds vs. giving up the enjoyment of shifting my own gears, a marginally ugly interior (IMO) and Barracuda inspired exterior, and a car that is "clunky" around town (Edmund's quote), I'll take 4.5. But that does not mean that I don't respect your choice to go with the GT-R based upon your preferences.
It may be valid to call something "better" based upon a single attribute. But my choice of cars - and I suspect yours - involves several attributes, some of which are in conflict with each other and change over time. In 2005 I bought a 911S Cab at $10k more than the coupe. The soft top was a detriment to absolute track performance, but a joy for my daughters in the mini-back seats. Now I'm about to pay $3,000 more for a Cayman coupe than a Boxster. Go figure.
Bringing this back to ELLPS, the trade-off preferences can be even more subtle. Nissan is often dinged on the lack of refinement relative to the G37 vs. the BMW 335i or even Acura TL-AWD. Other's might take the raw power and performance of a Subaru WRX and ask why anyone would consider a more expensive ELLPS. As you said, it all comes down to likes and dislikes and weighing preferences, not just a single attribute.
#15325 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [habitat1]
Dec 06, 2012 (9:54 am)
It sounds to me like you might be interested in the new Scion/Subaru coupes. They are light, agile, and perfect for zooming around town and up and down mountain roads. Plus, you could get one, modify it with a supercharger, and a ton of other goodies and still be 10K under the price of the Nissan or Porsche.
As much as I love the Cayman, it's overpriced and they still haven't really fixed the problem with the output shaft bearings. The Nissan is simply too heavy to be considered.
#15326 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [plekto]
Dec 06, 2012 (11:03 am)
they still haven't really fixed the problem with the output shaft bearings
My understanding is that the infamous Intermediate Shaft bearing failures were cured when they eliminated the entire part with the adoption of the 997 motor circa 2007. I don't think this problem ever affected the 987s (Cayman and Boxster after 2005)
#15327 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [plekto]
Dec 06, 2012 (11:12 am)
It sounds to me like you might be interested in the new Scion/Subaru coupes.
Once again, personal preferences. I still like playing baseball with 20- and 30- somethings, but I'm a couple decades and entire headset past wanting to have something that would characterize me as a boy racer. I'll pay up and forego that $10k difference. No argument that Porsche pricing isn't a little painful...they didn't become the most profitable car company on the planet by accident. But, to their credit, the craftsmanship and engineering is right up there with the best on the planet. I sometimes wish Honda had evolved their S2000 into an S3500, but for now, there really isn't anything in a sports car format that appeals to me as much as the Cayman and/or 911. So I guess I'll pay up for that preference as well.
The good news is that they did fix the rear main seal leak, if that is what you are referring to. Some time ago, in fact. I had a 2005 911S (997) and it didn't drip a drop of oil in 5.5 years and 30k+ miles. That problem pretty much went out the door with the 996 model of 911 and the pre-2008 (I think) Boxsters and Caymans. My independent Porsche mechanic has a 2007 Cayman with 120k+ miles that looks brand new, and he would claim it was all about proper break in.
#15328 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [habitat1]
Dec 06, 2012 (12:43 pm)
I believe if honda dropped a V6 in the S2000 it would have lost it's handling characteristics that made it what it was.
#15329 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [flightnurse]
Dec 06, 2012 (1:14 pm)
Probably right. Better to leave well enough alone, and simply reminisce about what a mere $32k bought me in 2001
#15330 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [flightnurse]
Dec 06, 2012 (1:51 pm)
What if they put that 6 in the trunk- ?
#15331 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [sweendogy]
Dec 06, 2012 (2:01 pm)
....and called it a Boxster??
#15332 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [habitat1]
Dec 06, 2012 (5:40 pm)
Only if they marked it up 15k, because they are the most profitable company in the world.
#15333 of 16989 Re: Preferences vs. "Better" [habitat1]
Dec 06, 2012 (10:49 pm)
what a mere $32k bought me in 2001
what would be 41.8K in today's dollars (ouch)...or 10K less than a BASE Cayman.