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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1520 of 1610

#15186 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [sweendogy] by habitat1

Nov 02, 2012 (6:07 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Nov 01, 2012 7:04 pm)
2004 tL 6 speed - so in car years you do drive a 2007 accord 6pd.
 
Not quite. The 2004 TL 6-speed also came with Brembo brakes, a noticeably firmer sport suspension and summer performance tires compared to the automatic (since switched to high performance all season). So even though the Accord and some other FWD cars now have comparable horsepower, I would still put my 2004 TL as one of the best handling and braking FWD mid size sedans I've driven. Unfortunately, with the latest generation, the FWD TL has morphed into more of an Accord Plus, and the AWD one is nearly a quarter ton heavier and does not have a separate sport suspension set up even on the 6-speed manual version.
 
I do agree a bit with your underlying point, though. Acura has not really acted like they want to be a distinct luxury/sport division from the mothership Honda. Certainly not the way Lexus has gone well above Toyota in product design and pricing with the LS and GS models. Hell, even Hyundai has a V8 RWD sedan that is priced higher then the droopy flagship RL, and they DIDN'T need a luxury division label to give them the balls to try. Infiniti has its own set of problems, but at least when they started with the Q45, they had the ambition of going above Nissan in a relatively big way.
 
The good news for Acura is that I think Honda is a stronger starting point then Toyota and way above Nissan. But I'd like to see them show more commitment to designing and building cars that seriously compete with Audi's A6 and above and BMW's 5 series and above in the sport luxury segment. The ILX? Really? We've already had the Integra, RSX, TSX and the XXX. Do we really need another model that begs the question "where does this fit in between the Accord, Civic and TL?" They appear to be stuck in perennial underachievement.
 
Note to Acura: Please, Acura, give me something with RWD and a 50/50 weight balance to seriously consider over a 535i or 550i 6-speed and S6. Go ahead and borrow some Hyundai balls to price it at $50-60k+ If you do it right, I'll buy one, I promise.

#15187 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [habitat1] by cdnpinhead

Nov 02, 2012 (6:38 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 01, 2012 11:11 am)
Excellent post! Very nicely put.

#15188 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [habitat1] by billyperksii

Nov 02, 2012 (12:43 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 02, 2012 6:07 am)
Glad you came back the way you did in your response, only question is, who buy these car anymore in the mass markets- East Coast?
"Hell, even Hyundai has a V8 RWD sedan"
I for one might trade up next summer for a 550 XI (operative word-might).

#15189 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [habitat1] by sweendogy

Nov 02, 2012 (5:30 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 02, 2012 6:07 am)
Great rebut, billy loved it, but Quite similar. I might have been off a year with accord- the 08 newer body coupe came with 268hp 6- a very similar if not the same gearbox- throw on a pair of after market brembos and tire rack to performance tires -btw you get 18s on the accord- and you have a TL coupe- while the tL might be a great fwd turner it's still an accord in soul- a lot of soul. Which is not a bad thing- so again maybe you should save a buck or 30k and reconsider the accord.

#15190 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [sweendogy] by habitat1

Nov 03, 2012 (6:05 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Nov 02, 2012 5:30 pm)
Tuner Accord coupe instead of a Boxster S? I don't think that's for me. I "tune" $50 million real estate projects for my day job, serve on a couple of boards where I "tune" companies for shareholders, and even "tuned" a falling down 1930's house (with a bulldozer) into a new FLW prairie style house for my wife and kids. But I've still got my $125 gas leaf blower pulled apart trying to figure out why it won't start. I wouldn't have the slightest idea of how you might tune FWD into RWD and a 60/40 weight balance into a 50/50. I don't think you'd want to ride in a car I've tried re-fitting with Brembo brakes.
 
On the other hand, if I was going to take up a second career in mechanical engineering, I might start by figuring out how to replace a BMW steptronic with a 6-speed manual so Billy can have a manual transmssion 550ix's in his garage in a couple of years.
 
Not me....but I do like your creative thinking.

#15191 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [habitat1] by sweendogy

Nov 03, 2012 (6:23 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 03, 2012 6:05 am)
I noticed the use of "" around a word tune, a lot. - don't get it - I said turner- ie left"turn" - "tuning" a car with new breaks and tires, that's not a tune - it's a upgrade.
 
Glad your making a "tune" on realestate - watch out for those arms, ballon payments and contingencies. The comment was to say you were not an accord guy- well in a way you do own an accord, or at least a similar variation -

#15192 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [habitat1] by puffin1

Nov 04, 2012 (9:37 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Nov 02, 2012 6:07 am)
I started out with an 83 RX7 GS then a GXU RX 7 .I love those cars and they stopped making them.
 So I got into Integras , What a deal and fun ride.My last one was an RSX Type S it was a rocket ( can you say rice on here?)
 Then Acura decided that the TSX would be the entry modle (screwed )again.
  So, I had to go with BMW ,warranty was the seller,but the price was almost divorce city.
 My problem is I live in the East and Vail in the winters and swapping over to steel wheels and studded ties drove me nuts.I bought a VW Golf as I was impressed with the German quality,except for Mercedes. I needed a natural aspirated engine for the Rockies.
  Back to the 3 series do you think by laying out 41k that had the options that should of been standard I got stiffed.
 Why is it driving home after every car sale I feel like I just got screwed again.
 While my wife says that her IS was a bargain.

#15193 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [puffin1] by plekto

Nov 04, 2012 (10:42 am)

Replying to: puffin1 (Nov 04, 2012 9:37 am)
I think it's because cars are too similar. Once upon a time, they were all designed by people who didn't know what they were doing. In fact, it wasn't until about WWII that it was decided to put things like gas pedals and so on in the configuration that they are now in, or to decide which direction doors would open up.
 
So occasionally you got a real gem in the middle of the crap. Because people were trying everything and anything to be different and maybe make a breakthrough.
 
Today, cars are all jellybeans and are all designed by people that all went to the same half dozen design schools. You feel like you had to compromise because every car *is* a compromise by the time it gets through a dozen layers of management and meetings.
 
Your next car should be a classic. Something that is different, simple, and about the driving. Not about the options. Something that has soul and won't depreciate out from under you.

#15194 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [plekto] by fedlawman

Nov 04, 2012 (12:12 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Nov 04, 2012 10:42 am)
Well said.

#15195 of 16087 Re: Trickle UP?!? [puffin1] by kyfdx HOST

Nov 04, 2012 (12:56 pm)

Replying to: puffin1 (Nov 04, 2012 9:37 am)
I needed a natural aspirated engine for the Rockies.

 
I thought it was the other way around? That you wanted forced induction at altitude?

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