Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#15064 of 16087 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [habitat1]
Oct 10, 2012 (11:54 am)
The unions are not fully to blame for the demise of GM, Ford And Chrysler. But they have a big share of responsibility in the "culture" of mediocrity as you put it.
Habit if you could place the blame on a scale (0-10), where would you place the auto workers blame? An 8? Last year when the Fox New channel in Detroit caught those Chrysler workers drinking and smoking pot on their lunch breaks, this was not something that just started, as you stated it was part of the culture, the attitude was,we have a union so we wont get fired. The culture for many years at the Big 3 was "who cares" granted this attitude came from the top down. Now to turn things around from "Who Cares" to "We Care" takes times, usually between 5-7 years to change the culture at a large corporation, Ford has done it I believe 2013 will the year in which you see a whole different company. Chrysler was beyond help, and the Government knew it, that is why they were looking for someone to buy them, however, in the short amount of time, a turn around has happened, I can tell you this, the new Generation 300 is light years ahead from before, the materiel's are better, and the fit and finish is first rate. Does Chrysler has work to do to shake off its' bad image, yup, but they are working in the right directions. GM, has work to do, but they have started, I have rented a couple of Chevy Cruze's and was impressed with how it was put together, the new Malibu is a step forward and the new Impala too. I'm looking forward to driving them.
American's can build great cars, but the workers have to want to, it is that simple, the workers for BMW, VW, Nissan are well taken care of, have great benefits and they are happy, that is the key to a successful workforce.
#15065 of 16087 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [flightnurse]
Oct 10, 2012 (12:20 pm)
Lutz was a classic Detroit's executive. Full of excuses and self satisfaction. I ultimately blame the management for the failure, much more than the unions (75%-25%), just because those guys were paid to be in charge and, if all else failed, they should have busted the militant union gangsters - but they chose easy solutions and collected nice bonus for doing nothing.
What did we hear instead? Lutz said "we did not have enough cash in the bank to withstand a strike and the union had strike fund for longer than our cash". And whose fault is that? You know it's a war, the other side made it clear, they won't relent. If so, you get the guns and ammunition for a siege, bonuses come after you win the war, not when you sign a capitulation.
#15066 of 16087 Re: My '06 Audi A3 [m6user]
Oct 10, 2012 (12:13 pm)
I always considered it a reliable car because, after all, I was never stranded nor did it ever need to be towed. However, after donating it I went through the maint folder I kept on it and soon realized something surprizing, that car had a lot of repairs and I put a lot of time and money into it because of those repairs. It would have made your list seem short in comparison.
Well which is it, is my list long or short?
I consider my list short and insignificant because several of the items are very low cost / low labor fixes. Some of them are really things I was just nitpicky about (like the lid to the storage bin and the rear cupholders which are never used anyway). None of these issues stranded me or required a tow truck. That is a big deal. My '95 Dodge required 4 tow truck trips in 65K miles. The Audi has gone 92K with none; that's stellar in my book.
The Honda went 65K without a single tow truck trip as well, then I sold it. It did however, require a new transmission at 42K (covered by Honda in goodwill). But at least it was able to limp into the dealership on it's own power.
Both the Honda and Audi were extremely well built high quality cars, and it showed. The Dodge was poorly built and engineered, and it showed (4 tow trucks afterall). Goodwill when something did UNEXPECTEDLY go wrong, very present with both Honda and Audi. Goodwill from Dodge or Chrysler when stuff did go EXPECTEDLY wrong??; non-existent!
That makes a huge difference! Yes, liking the car makes a big difference, but having the breakdowns covered by the manufacturer (sometimes requiring them to STEP UP TO THE PLATE), makes an even BIGGER difference in your perceptions. Not requiring tow trucks helps a lot too. Also, it's important to put the severity of the issues in perspective as well (as you can easily have 6 minor repairs cost less than 1 major one).
Out of my own personal 3 cars so far in my lifetime, only one has had the AC last longer than 53K miles, and that's the Honda.
Only one has had the transmission last longer than 60K miles, and that's the Audi.
Also, take into consideration I actually drive my cars. I drive them hard and expect a lot out of them. The Audi has been driven the hardest by far (easily by 500%). None of the others faced this, the Audi inspired me to take it out on spirited weekend backroad country canyon carving drives, an autocross event or two, and have tracked it 5 or 6 weekends.
The Honda or Dodge never inspired me to drive for the sake of driving. The Audi awoke the enthusiast within me.
Oct 10, 2012 (12:56 pm)
I drive a British car, with only 5 months of warranty left...
#15068 of 16087 Re: Pray for Me [laurasdada]
Oct 10, 2012 (1:50 pm)
Which British car do you drive, I would like to hear your experience with it.
#15069 of 16087 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [graphicguy]
Oct 10, 2012 (1:54 pm)
"As Mark says, as good as the TL SH AWD is, she wasn't the marrying type."
Hey watch what you are saying about my wife- been married 3 years now without any pre-nups.
#15070 of 16087 Re: Pray for Me [flightnurse]
Oct 10, 2012 (2:57 pm)
'09 Jaguar XK Coupe. Beautiful, great ride/handling balance, powerful, relatively economical and seats 4! Ahem...
Approaching 32k miles, three warranty issues (anything electrical related expected, no surprise. The Prince of Darkness followed Jag to Ford):
Replaced Audio Control Module to fix disappearing AM radio (at the time, needed AM to listen to the Sox games. Hindsight, shoulda just left it offline.)
Replaced Nav System. Almost everytime I entered an address, the system would reboot. Other than that, worked fine.
Replace/repair the AC outflow tube. Too close to the exhaust, melted shut. Passenger footwell filled with condensation on a road trip. Good one, Jaguar!
The two electrical fixes were plug and play module replacements, no biggie. The AC fix, I saw the Jag in the shop, not a pretty site. But, I found out later, there was a TSB, all is well now. Loaner car was Land Rover LR2, which was good to experience. Now I know I will never buy a LR2. I had hoped for an XF or XJ, but alas, no. (When my TL was in for service, I always asked for the loaner NSX. But, wouldn't you know, every time they had just loaned it out before I got there!)
No issues since. I'm a sucker for leather and wood and I'm surrounded by it. Bowers and Wilkins audio, just lovely. And, the exhaust note: . The touch screen? Slow, clunky, gen 1.0. Luckily some redundant controls on the center stack and (heated, new favorite option) steering wheel. You get used to it.
As I consider myself more of a GT guy than a true sports car guy (as of this writing), this car is near perfect for me. Except for the pesky don't go in snow thing...
Went to the Jag Drive Alive experience, what a good time! Open to all, free. Nothing but R models of the XF, XJ and actually XKR-S in all it's 550hp glory. You get to drive each and every one, the XKR-S on a drag strip. Oh, my goodness. Swag, food, a bunch of professional drivers riding shotgun and followed up a few weeks later with a coupon good for up to $5k off a Jag. Holding out for an F-Type coupe.
Love the car, father's friend had a red E-type convertible back in the late '60s, never forgot it. Of course, my kids don't like the XK, because, well, I spent their tuiton money on it. Kidding of course. Emptied my 401k!
BTW, traded an '05 Acura TL for the Jag. Loved the TL, 6.5 years, 85k miles not an issue to report. Like the Jag, handsome, nicely appointed, great ride/handling balance, really seats 4 or more! And, not fabulous in the snow. I chose the TL over the Infiniti G back in '05 as the TL was just more refined, more GT to me. Too each, you can argue all you want about which car is better/better built/more reliable/fun etc. But until you put your $ down, it's all talk. Fun, interesting talk (when friendly).
I've owned Japanese, European and even a domestic (Chrylser! 300M. Enjoyed it). Japanese easily most set it and forget it. But, the Saab, BMW and Jag ain't been too bad. Although the Bimmer is only a year old... Even the 300M had no out of warranty issues. But, at 67k miles, I wasn't taking chances and traded it for the TL.
The Jag? Just a special piece of aluminum, wood and leather. Well done. But, where do I go from here?
#15071 of 16087 Re: Pray for Me [laurasdada]
Oct 10, 2012 (3:18 pm)
Thanks for the write up dada... I have always like Jag's like you the E type, but mine was with the V12... Here in PHX, we have one Jag dealer, and it belongs to the Penske Autogroup, they have a concierge service, when you walk in (not too if other Jag dealers have it. But on a flight last week, my seatmate was in Charge of concierge service at all of the Penske dealerships in PHX, we talked. She been employed with them now 12 years, she tells me that the complaints have gone down with the newer generation of Jag's, which is a good thing. Who knows, in 10 years I might want one..
#15072 of 16087 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [m6user]
Oct 10, 2012 (3:48 pm)
Guess what, I don't think Infiniti is trying to clone a BMW 3
I'll have to disagree with you on this. Here is what Road and Track wrote in the first paragraph of their article/comparison of the ATS and 3 series.
The BMW 3 Series isn't just a car. As my cohort Jonny Lieberman likes to say, the 3 Series is a segment. Now, this isn't an attempt to stoke BMW's ego, or, as many of our readers would assume, bias towards the Bavarian brand. It's just the simple truth: When an automaker chooses to compete in the luxury sports sedan segment, it's benchmarking the 3 Series. No BMW has consistently won Motor Trend comparison tests like the 3 Series has, and for good reason. The 3 Series has come to define BMW's Ultimate Driving Machine mantra and embodies the purest qualities BMW stands for as a brand.
R&T said it best, if you are going to build a sport sedan, than you are going to be compared to a 3 series. I do not remember reading that Infiniti was not trying to build their version of a 3 series.
We all know that over the years, the 3 series hasn't lived up to its reputation, however, it continues to be picked over the others., first C&D and now R&T have picked the 3 series as a winner, as I stated before, if GM can fix the short comings of the ATS, they have the best shot of taking the win from BMW.
#15073 of 16087 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [flightnurse]
Oct 10, 2012 (4:39 pm)
Can't say that I am shocked by the disagreement. You just don't get it. I already mentioned that Infiniti was benchmarking the 3 and that it was a compliment to BMW. Benchmarking is not necessarily an attempt to copy but to strive for similar(not exactly the same) results. Nobody is saying any car is overall better than the 3 in this segment. Just saying there are viable competitors that may be better for some people that don't need the epitome of driving dynamics and care more about other things. If Infiniti was trying to clone a 328 which is what it was price competitive with they could have given it 240hp instead of 325hp and called it a day. They chose a different route. Does a car have to be a clone of something else to compete in this category. Not everyone wants a BMW...plain and simple. I just wrote a check for 40k for a new Acura. I could just have well written one for a BMW or even more. But I really don't want one. I have nothing against BMW....it's the owners that are obnoxious sometimes.
I do not remember reading that Infiniti was not trying to build their version of a 3 series.
Kind of hard to prove a negative now isn't it? Do you also not remember them saying they were?