Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#15040 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [flightnurse]
Oct 09, 2012 (11:54 am)
Don't forget, though, that this also is a huge plus for Cadillac. Repairs are inexpensive (parts are actually less now than Toyota or Honda!) and they happen fairly infrequently compared to the European makes. Add in pretty decent incentives (incentives from Acura or Lexus??), and it's compelling.
$32K for a CTS (actual price via Truecar on a 2012, which isn't as low as you can negotiate yourself, even) versus $40-45K or more for a 3 series (335i)... It certainly makes you wonder. The smart money is on the CTS and to simply ignore the ATS until you can get one next fall in the 27-28K range after incentives.
As for my father's CTS, in two years it's had zero warranty repairs or issues with it. Nothing squeeks, rattles, or feels any different than the day he bought it. Quite a departure from his previous GM vehicles. You'd swear it was made by Totoya. But the engine is without a doubt made in Germany. It's exactly like having a BMW or Mercedes engine and a body that is made by Totoya - just without their appalling lack of styling.
#15041 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [markcincinnati]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:17 pm)
Mark, your constant repetition of the erroneous idea that it is financially ruinous to own a German-made car is annoying but keep it up. As long as folks believe it there will be a constant supply of wonderful, lightly used BMWs and Audis for sale for 50% and less of the new price.
This winter, for the third time, I bought a second-hand German car. I got an 80K miles BMW 330ciC for the MSRP cost of a loaded Ford Fiesta. I know from experience that 80K is barely break-in mileage for a Bimmer and I also know that nothing drives as nicely as a good RWD car.
Drive on my friends.
#15042 of 16984 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [flightnurse]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:36 pm)
One thing they didn't miss was price- so lets factor in that- how much of a mark did it really miss-
Boys price has to be factored in - hello- a 20% markup on a similar car is real money.
#15043 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [plekto]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:46 pm)
As for my father's CTS, in two years it's had zero warranty repairs or issues with it. Nothing squeeks, rattles, or feels any different than the day he bought it. Quite a departure from his previous GM vehicles.
Sorry, don't take this personally, but I have to chuckle a bit. First, markincincinnati offers his conclusion that German cars require a lot of TLC after owning 29 Audi's. And now you are ready to proclaim that your dad hit the jackpot with the CTS because it doesn't shake rattle and roll after two years - unlike his previous GM experience.
I'm beginning to think I stumbled upon a forum on self mutilation. Wouldn't most people have said "enough is enough" after maybe 15 Audi's? Or one too many rattle box GM's. But no, let's go back for more abuse and hope that it's different this time around?? I do have to give you guys an A for persistence.
But before you take the report card to McDonalds for a free Happy Meal, you might want to retest the doors of the CTS in another year or two. I know people - similar to Flight's experience - that have 6-8-10 year old BMW's and Mercedes with 100k+ miles that still have the new car look, sound and feel. I'm sorry to appear anti-GM, but I honestly can't say that I know anyone that speaks enthusiastically of how solid their 8 year old ___________ GM still feels.
#15044 of 16984 2012 G37X - Center console buttons
Oct 09, 2012 (12:48 pm)
Has anyone had a problem with the center console buttons? When I drive at night, the volume and thermostat buttons do not light up and everything is pitch black? Is there a setting or way to illuminate them?
#15045 of 16984 Re: Manual Transmissions RIP [markcincinnati]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:59 pm)
The 7-speed DSG's are also wonderful and in most cases (if you believe the test reports) are able to equal and often better 6-speed manuals.
Mark....I totally agree with your assessment. There was a time that anyone who wouldn't/couldn't drive a manual transmission, in my mind, should not be allowed on public roads, as they didn't really know how to drive.
Now, as you state, as good as auto trans cars have become so good (particularly the 7 sp dual clutch DSG in Audis), that there's little hope that even someone who's really good with a manual trans could possibly out perform it.
Because MPG is becoming more an more paramount, auto transmissions will capture that crown, too.
Generally speaking, today's auto transmissions are simply better than their manual counterparts. I'm good with a manual trans car....I've tracked them both at zutox and 1/4 mile events. So, it takes quite a bit for me to admit those new auto transmissions are better. But, they are.
#15046 of 16984 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [habitat1]
Oct 09, 2012 (1:22 pm)
Wow, that's some real credibility (and loyalty) speaking here
I guess you insinuate that owning an Infiniti for ten years is really not that much credibility but I would counter that never owning one and not even being in a dealership(test drives) in years is much, much less credibility. As far as loyality goes, I would love to have another Infiniti but they just don't make the type and size of vehicle that I now want(not talking about a G here). It has nothing to do with with liking the brand. If they made a vehicle that was very similar to the Acura I just bought then I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Besides I also like to sample different brands from time to time. Never know what you're missing until you try it, right? Are you saying that I should be loyal to brand without fail? That would be pretty stupid IMO. No brands are that good or perfect by any means.
People seem to take marketing and advertising too literally. It's just hype. The only customers who believe the hype and are dissappointed are the naive ones that believe all that crap in the first place. When a company says it is targeting something they are using it as benchmark. They are actually complimenting the known quantity by saying they are trying to be like it in many ways, not a carbon copy. In some ways they succeed and some they don't. BMW is not perfect either and especially is not the right car for many people. I pay cash and keep vehicles for at least 6-10 years. I shy away from cars that need a lot of expensive repairs and maint after the warranty is over because I just don't need the hassle long term. I can afford the repairs but I just don't want to deal with them. If I leased or traded every 3-4 years it would possibly be different.
Congrats on being able to play baseball at your age whatever it is. Didn't quite get the connection to the discussion though unless you're constantly marketing yourself as a great baseball player. Has Infiniti been marketing itself as better than BMW? I don't believe so. They may market the G as an alternative to the BMW and that it is, an alternative....not a copy.
#15047 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [habitat1]
Oct 09, 2012 (5:07 pm)
We can all chuckle a bit at folks (like me) who keep buying German cars and finding them the best driving, best performing, most grin inspiring cars ever -- only to find they require so much attention to keep at that level of gratification.
But, there it is, out there for all to at least smile and nod knowingly.
And, as I said, despite our considerable experience and the experiences of others both the pros and amateurs alike regarding the overall durability of these wunderkinds, many of us become hooked on German cars almost as if it is an addiction.
The reason to repeat and repeat and repeat and lust after future repeat acquisitions of these German cars belies their sometimes dismal durability.
I sit here watching an episode of Motor Week wherein the test du jour is of the 2013 Audi S4 and S5. After a totally favorable review, the last sentences goes: "we're not particularly impressed with Audi's reliability; but that wouldn't keep us from parking one in our garage."
The hell of it is, these [German] cars are just the best to drive, but disappointing and expensive to keep much beyond 50K miles.
I know you may think with the amount of turnover we've had in our German's that we "don't know nuttin' about birthin' no babies," however, I assure you that with about 3 dozen of them, our experiences might lend credence to our conclusions. If you've had one or two really reliable Bimmers or Mercs or Audis, great -- give us a full report after about 20 more.
On the other hand, if you, like me, get hooked on the German car experience, feed your habit, you won't regret it assuming you place value on that certain je ne sais quoi only to be had in a German car.
Like I said, my TL is a good car. It isn't exactly marrying material though.
#15048 of 16984 Re: 2012 G37X - Center console buttons [mjizzles]
Oct 09, 2012 (5:59 pm)
Not completely sure but on the nav set up screen there is a settings button that haves various prompts- I know there is an interior light setting function.
I've never had a problem but who knows pu might have a busted dash.
It's a 2012 - just take it back to dealer if you can't figure it out.
#15049 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [markcincinnati]
Oct 09, 2012 (6:19 pm)
So what's the range and average of the miles you put on those 29 Audi's?
Are you leasing? Seems like you would have gotten killed with depreciation otherwise.