Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 7:58 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#15037 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [markcincinnati]
Oct 09, 2012 (10:43 am)
I must inject here that we have had 29 Audis, 3 BMW's and 3 VW's since the late 1970's and only two "Japanese" representatives -- a 2012 Acura TL Advance SH-AWD and a 2011 Infiniti FX35 AWD.
I certainly appreciate and respect your experience, but just how many of these cars have made it past 50-60k miles for you to make your durability judgements?? It appears that you have owned a significant percentage of the Audis sold in the US. And if my math is correct, the 37 vehicles you have owned since the late 70's suggests an average hold period of 2+/- years assuming that you only had 2 in your garage concurrently.
That said, I don't dispute your conclusions. I definitely think the German cars have historically required a lot more "routine maintenance" to keep running up to snuff than the Japanese. I believe that is changing a bit. In both directions. My 2004 Acura TL has gone through 2 sets of brakes (including front rotors) in 65,000 miles (manual transmission = Brembo front brakes). My 1995 Maxima didn't have the front brake pads replaced until it hit 105k miles the rears at 125k miles and never needed rotors replaced when we gave it away at 15 years and 160k miles. By the same token, I believe the Germans have become a little less high maintenance over the past decade or so. My 911 did not call for it's first oil change until 2 years or 20,000 miles They don't offer a maintenance plan, so this wasn't some cheapskate way of reducing their costs. Granted, when something breaks out of warranty, you can hand them a limb or two along with your IRA, but compared to the old days, the cars spend more time in your garage than your mechanics.
P.S. Friend of mine back in the early 1980's owned an Audi Coupe. Sexy. I had a Datsun B210 GX at the time. Not sexy. I made him take me to dinner every time I had to drive him from suburban Phili to Wilmington to take his car in or pick it up for service. I put on 10 pounds in about 8 months before he ditched it.
#15038 of 16984 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [m6user]
Oct 09, 2012 (11:08 am)
Don't really know what you mean when you say that you "never talked numbers at all, just facts". Aren't numbers facts? Kind of cryptic. Lot of apparent opinions flying around here trying to be pawned off as facts though.
I never posted #'s or stated which one was better when I posted the URL,you have taken what was in the video and turned it around like I have made a statement that one was better then other. Now, I did say, that C/D stated that the BMW was the overall winner, in fact, that is why C/D has always picked the 3 series as the winner, because of the over all feel, way it drives. I think you need to re-watch the last part of the video to hear what they say.
Don't know what you mean by "on paper the G should be better".
If you read a posting I posted you would have gotten this. The G's chassis is what Nissan call's the FM platform, where the engine sits behind the front wheels, this like the RX-8 makes for a better handling car, chassis is plenty stiff, RWD, weight in line, manual trans, hefty V6, however, Nissan for what every reason missed the mark on some points. Hopefully the next generation G all the short coming of the current G will be worked out.
#15039 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [markcincinnati]
Oct 09, 2012 (11:24 am)
Put simply, the Germans show their age unless given lots of TLC ($). Mark with 29 cars how many of then did you drive to 50 or 60K? Currently my 2005 330i has no rattles, both doors close with the same solid thud as when it was new. The engine continues to pull to red line without missing a beat. Oil changed every 5K miles, air filter cleaned at 5K, the only out of pocket expense really has been the after market equipment I bought for the car. So really not too sure what you mean by extra TLC? You what to know about TLC, own a British car, my father and I bought a 1957 TR3, NOW that car needed TLC....
#15040 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [flightnurse]
Oct 09, 2012 (11:54 am)
Don't forget, though, that this also is a huge plus for Cadillac. Repairs are inexpensive (parts are actually less now than Toyota or Honda!) and they happen fairly infrequently compared to the European makes. Add in pretty decent incentives (incentives from Acura or Lexus??), and it's compelling.
$32K for a CTS (actual price via Truecar on a 2012, which isn't as low as you can negotiate yourself, even) versus $40-45K or more for a 3 series (335i)... It certainly makes you wonder. The smart money is on the CTS and to simply ignore the ATS until you can get one next fall in the 27-28K range after incentives.
As for my father's CTS, in two years it's had zero warranty repairs or issues with it. Nothing squeeks, rattles, or feels any different than the day he bought it. Quite a departure from his previous GM vehicles. You'd swear it was made by Totoya. But the engine is without a doubt made in Germany. It's exactly like having a BMW or Mercedes engine and a body that is made by Totoya - just without their appalling lack of styling.
#15041 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [markcincinnati]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:17 pm)
Mark, your constant repetition of the erroneous idea that it is financially ruinous to own a German-made car is annoying but keep it up. As long as folks believe it there will be a constant supply of wonderful, lightly used BMWs and Audis for sale for 50% and less of the new price.
This winter, for the third time, I bought a second-hand German car. I got an 80K miles BMW 330ciC for the MSRP cost of a loaded Ford Fiesta. I know from experience that 80K is barely break-in mileage for a Bimmer and I also know that nothing drives as nicely as a good RWD car.
Drive on my friends.
#15042 of 16984 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [flightnurse]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:36 pm)
One thing they didn't miss was price- so lets factor in that- how much of a mark did it really miss-
Boys price has to be factored in - hello- a 20% markup on a similar car is real money.
#15043 of 16984 Re: Reliability and Durability etc. [plekto]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:46 pm)
As for my father's CTS, in two years it's had zero warranty repairs or issues with it. Nothing squeeks, rattles, or feels any different than the day he bought it. Quite a departure from his previous GM vehicles.
Sorry, don't take this personally, but I have to chuckle a bit. First, markincincinnati offers his conclusion that German cars require a lot of TLC after owning 29 Audi's. And now you are ready to proclaim that your dad hit the jackpot with the CTS because it doesn't shake rattle and roll after two years - unlike his previous GM experience.
I'm beginning to think I stumbled upon a forum on self mutilation. Wouldn't most people have said "enough is enough" after maybe 15 Audi's? Or one too many rattle box GM's. But no, let's go back for more abuse and hope that it's different this time around?? I do have to give you guys an A for persistence.
But before you take the report card to McDonalds for a free Happy Meal, you might want to retest the doors of the CTS in another year or two. I know people - similar to Flight's experience - that have 6-8-10 year old BMW's and Mercedes with 100k+ miles that still have the new car look, sound and feel. I'm sorry to appear anti-GM, but I honestly can't say that I know anyone that speaks enthusiastically of how solid their 8 year old ___________ GM still feels.
#15044 of 16984 2012 G37X - Center console buttons
Oct 09, 2012 (12:48 pm)
Has anyone had a problem with the center console buttons? When I drive at night, the volume and thermostat buttons do not light up and everything is pitch black? Is there a setting or way to illuminate them?
#15045 of 16984 Re: Manual Transmissions RIP [markcincinnati]
Oct 09, 2012 (12:59 pm)
The 7-speed DSG's are also wonderful and in most cases (if you believe the test reports) are able to equal and often better 6-speed manuals.
Mark....I totally agree with your assessment. There was a time that anyone who wouldn't/couldn't drive a manual transmission, in my mind, should not be allowed on public roads, as they didn't really know how to drive.
Now, as you state, as good as auto trans cars have become so good (particularly the 7 sp dual clutch DSG in Audis), that there's little hope that even someone who's really good with a manual trans could possibly out perform it.
Because MPG is becoming more an more paramount, auto transmissions will capture that crown, too.
Generally speaking, today's auto transmissions are simply better than their manual counterparts. I'm good with a manual trans car....I've tracked them both at zutox and 1/4 mile events. So, it takes quite a bit for me to admit those new auto transmissions are better. But, they are.
#15046 of 16984 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [habitat1]
Oct 09, 2012 (1:22 pm)
Wow, that's some real credibility (and loyalty) speaking here
I guess you insinuate that owning an Infiniti for ten years is really not that much credibility but I would counter that never owning one and not even being in a dealership(test drives) in years is much, much less credibility. As far as loyality goes, I would love to have another Infiniti but they just don't make the type and size of vehicle that I now want(not talking about a G here). It has nothing to do with with liking the brand. If they made a vehicle that was very similar to the Acura I just bought then I would have bought it in a heartbeat. Besides I also like to sample different brands from time to time. Never know what you're missing until you try it, right? Are you saying that I should be loyal to brand without fail? That would be pretty stupid IMO. No brands are that good or perfect by any means.
People seem to take marketing and advertising too literally. It's just hype. The only customers who believe the hype and are dissappointed are the naive ones that believe all that crap in the first place. When a company says it is targeting something they are using it as benchmark. They are actually complimenting the known quantity by saying they are trying to be like it in many ways, not a carbon copy. In some ways they succeed and some they don't. BMW is not perfect either and especially is not the right car for many people. I pay cash and keep vehicles for at least 6-10 years. I shy away from cars that need a lot of expensive repairs and maint after the warranty is over because I just don't need the hassle long term. I can afford the repairs but I just don't want to deal with them. If I leased or traded every 3-4 years it would possibly be different.
Congrats on being able to play baseball at your age whatever it is. Didn't quite get the connection to the discussion though unless you're constantly marketing yourself as a great baseball player. Has Infiniti been marketing itself as better than BMW? I don't believe so. They may market the G as an alternative to the BMW and that it is, an alternative....not a copy.