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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1501 of 1610

#14995 of 16087 Let me ask a question by habitat1

Oct 07, 2012 (12:24 pm)

Has anybody driven a 10 year old Cadillac anything and come away impressed?? I certainly haven't.
 
Yet last week I drove a 2001 BMW M5 with 120,000 miles on the odometer that a friend just bought from the original owner. This car drives better, with fewer rattles, than any 2 year old Caddy sitting on your local dealer lot. The paint looks better than a brand new Caddy.
 
The fact is that for GM to be successful against BMW they have to produce a quality vehicle that will remain so for a decade. And they need to start with performance and pricing that is compellingly better. The fact that the ATS is priced the same, with no better performance than the 328 is IMO not going to win many crossover buyers.

#14996 of 16087 Re: Let me ask a question [habitat1] by dino001

Oct 07, 2012 (12:41 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 07, 2012 12:24 pm)
Well, Cadillac has a habit of large cash rebates, so let's wait and see how the transaction price will look in a year. I agree with the rest of the your point. It took GM 30 years to squander its long legacy, it may take them twice as long to rebuild it. When a trailing runner wants to get up front, they have to run faster, not just as fast. At best, it seems ATS is just as good, not better than 328. This is something to talk about, but it is NOT something that would suddenly make GM a new leader in next two years. If they undertstand it is not a drag race to next light, but rather a multistage championship tour, where everybody makes improvements constantly, they have a chance. If, on the other hand, they sit on the laurels of "job well done", they concede the chase, before they even started. ATS - good start, even really good start perhaps. Just don't assume you're done, GM.
 
The longevity of the design is also a good question - we shall see about that in five to ten years.

#14997 of 16087 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [dino001] by fedlawman

Oct 07, 2012 (1:32 pm)

Replying to: dino001 (Oct 07, 2012 11:59 am)
I suspect a comparison of Automatic Transmission versions of these two cars would result in a different ranking.

#14998 of 16087 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [fedlawman] by dino001

Oct 07, 2012 (1:38 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 07, 2012 1:32 pm)
In whose favor?

#14999 of 16087 Re: Let me ask a question [habitat1] by andys120

Oct 07, 2012 (1:59 pm)

Replying to: habitat1 (Oct 07, 2012 12:24 pm)
Has anybody driven a 10 year old Cadillac anything and come away impressed??
 
You've hit on something important. I drive a couple of Bimmers that are more than 10 years old* and both are still solid, good -looking cars that are enjoyable as well as reliable. The only problem for BMW is that I can't find a reason to spend the money on a new one. If they could recapture the magic of the Reitzle-era cars maybe I would.
 
*2000 528i/146K
*2001 330ciC/80K

#15000 of 16087 Re: Let me ask a question [andys120] by plekto

Oct 07, 2012 (3:47 pm)

Replying to: andys120 (Oct 07, 2012 1:59 pm)
Again, the main problem here is that they are comparing a nasty turbo 4 to a 6. So of course the 6 wins in smoothness and torque delivery. Now, if they did the same with the V6 engine from GM, I suspect that the GM would win.
 
I've seen both interiors, and the GM clearly wins.
 
As for it being a little too sporty/stiff/whatever, I'd remind you that you want it to be a bit like that since the car will still drive great when it's 5 or 10 years old. Well, that and the reviewers are rapidly aging and have gotten soft. I test drove a Cadillac CTS with the sport suspension and it honestly was softer than my 1990 Volvo. Sure, it would bump a little here and there, but go sit in a BMW 3 series from the 80s. Those were like having the tires connected to a pogo stick. When you got the sport suspension, your teeth would rattle going over railroad tracks. It just was how it was back then.
 
BMW has gotten soft. Go test drive a Subaru WRX if you want a car that hasn't changed or gotten soft when it comes to "sporty". Be prepared to grab some Advil, though, if you're a typical couch potato. Personally I think GM has hit the right amount of sporty in their new cars. Enough so that you get good results and not quite so bad that your fillings fall out. If you want a couch on wheels that cradles you and sucks up bumps, buy a Buick or Lexus.

#15001 of 16087 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [dino001] by fedlawman

Oct 07, 2012 (3:57 pm)

Replying to: dino001 (Oct 07, 2012 1:38 pm)
"In whose favor?"
 
I think the Cadillac would win. A simple reflash would change the power map for the engine and the transmission would mask any power deliver deficiencies that might remain.
 
Of course, by the time the comparo is performed, BMW will release the MY14 and all the current complaints about the 3-series (soft suspension, numb steering, etc.) will be fixed.
 
It's really kind of sad that BMW is basically building a RWD Buick right now.

#15002 of 16087 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [fedlawman] by flightnurse

Oct 07, 2012 (4:00 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 07, 2012 1:32 pm)
Hey Fed, you opened Pandora's box by using the word Automatic Transmission, as you know some people do not believe that Sport Sedan and Auto trannys should be used together.

#15003 of 16087 Re: Let me ask a question [plekto] by fedlawman

Oct 07, 2012 (4:01 pm)

Replying to: plekto (Oct 07, 2012 3:47 pm)
"they are comparing a nasty turbo 4 to a 6"
 
The BMW has a turbo 4.
 
I doubt if the Cadillac's turbo 4 is nasty - consider the turbo 4 of the dearly departed Solstice/Sky. I think the engine management software just needs a few more lines of code.

#15004 of 16087 Re: So is the BMW 328i better then the ATS? [fedlawman] by flightnurse

Oct 07, 2012 (4:01 pm)

Replying to: fedlawman (Oct 07, 2012 3:57 pm)
And they are selling every single one with very little discount too...

Messages Page 1501 of 1610

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