Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan
#14950 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [habitat1]
Sep 22, 2012 (8:20 am)
So, for Rick, the Genesis came in first place when he overlayed his price vs attribute ( ie value) priorities
Good point and is exactly what I was saying previously. The BMW may be #1 in a couple of categories which is MOST important to SOME ELLPS buyers. To many other ELLPS buyers the value equation may be more important. Long term reliability and repair frequency and cost are very important to me as I buy cars for cash and keep them for at least 6 years, some longer. I want a peppy, luxurious, smaller car that I don't have to have repaired frequently once the warranty is gone(or before for that matter) and I like a nice handling car but I don't need one that I can zip around the cloverleafs at 70mph....50 is fine thank you.
So BMW can be #1 for some people but for many it is much farther down the list for a number of valid reasons. Nobody is arguing that it is not #1 in cutting corners. So to say a certain car is "loser" or always #2 is ridiculous as it is #1 to the thousands that buy it. And to also say that those same people cannot afford another few thousand dollars more is elitist to say the least and condescending at best.
#14951 of 16087 Re: BMW's customers [m6user]
Sep 22, 2012 (10:27 am)
These are BMW's primary customers, not enthusiasts like many if us here.
#14952 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [m6user]
Sep 22, 2012 (10:28 am)
Excellent point. I agree 95% with what you say (I like taking the clover leafs 70:)
#14953 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [habitat1]
Sep 22, 2012 (10:41 am)
If you want numbers read Road and Track, if you want subjective and numbers Car and Driver. Subjective means a lot.
The Japanese design their cars by numbers, start with a spec sheet and what comes out comes out and then looks great on paper.
Anyone who drives one as well as a German or American car can tell you, there's loads of difference in how they drive and feel - even when the numbers aren't that different.
#14954 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [wireless]
Sep 22, 2012 (11:05 am)
I agree. There are far more qualitative differences to performance and handling than raw numbers can represent.
Should have clarified that what I don't care for is the "price/value" element of the rankings. I'm OK with subjective rankings that would say steering feel is a 10 on a 911 and a 3 on a Buick. I just don't want to see the Buick ranked 1st after "price consideration".
Some of th magazines separate this adjustment out, so you can disregard it. Other's build it into their selection of a "winner" that I think is highly subjective and inaccurate at best, unethical at worst if they are vying for advertising dollars.
#14955 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [wireless]
Sep 24, 2012 (7:24 am)
wireless, habitat.....agree with you both. I think as buyers, we all put different weights on specific parameters, regardless of what kind of car we're looking at.
In any given price range, some put price above all other parameters. I'm not one of those. I want the best I can afford.
That said, I've discounted buying some cars which others consider to be "tops" in their class. Mercedes immediately to mind. They cost roughly the same amount as an Audi or a BMW. But, they fall way short on the things I value most (performance and driving dynamics).
I've tried hard to like Infinitis....over the course of many years. If, for no other reason, I could have saved myself a few bucks over what I end up buying. Even being less expensive than a 3 series or an Audi, they just don't appeal to me, for a variety of reasons.
Obviously, they appeal to plenty of people, just not to me.
#14956 of 16087 press request
by kirstie_h HOST
Sep 24, 2012 (9:00 am)
Did you recently buy a new car because the financing offer was too good to pass up? If so, a reporter would like to talk with you about your experience. Please contact predmunds.com by end of day Tuesday, September 25, 2012 with a brief account of your purchase and your preferred contact information.
#14957 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [habitat1]
Sep 24, 2012 (4:44 pm)
It bugs me a bit when I see car magazines do a comparison of cars and mix subjective value factors into determining a "winner"
I agree, give me the facts about the car, price should not determine a winner. Let the buyer (me) determine if the added price should sway me to look at other cars.
#14958 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [flightnurse]
Sep 24, 2012 (5:19 pm)
Sorry boys In a comparison test price must be included- as someone noted Have to compare Apples to apples - not 911s to buicks - Price is not subjective it's a matter of fact. Also important is where a car is classified by the manufacture- whos its target competition-
#14959 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [sweendogy]
Sep 24, 2012 (7:18 pm)
I haven't seen too many 911 vs. Regal comparisons. Price is an objective fact, so go ahead and publish it. Just don't try to then extrapolate it into a subjective value analysis that will vary greatly buyer to buyer. Nimble handling and precise engineering mean a lot to me, maybe not so much to the next guy. We can each figure out how much we are willing to pay for it without having the reviewer pick a winner based upon price.