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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1494 of 1610

#14926 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [flightnurse] by sweendogy

Sep 19, 2012 (8:33 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Sep 19, 2012 6:03 am)
What is a short period of time- ? the g35/37 is now in its 10th year, and 2 generations. I'm sure we will see a hike in price but don't you think Infiniti knows its main draw is similar performance at a cheaper price- I mean it's been doing it right for 10 plus years.

#14927 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [flightnurse] by m6user

Sep 19, 2012 (8:43 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Sep 19, 2012 6:03 am)
infiniti can only be based as a value buy for a short time.
 
Why? No, car will ever be exactly the same as a BMW, or any other brand for that matter, as they all have their little differences. Infiniti has chosen a path to be similar to a BMW but also different( and in some categories better) and for a little less money. Seems to work for them so why do you say they can only do it for a short time? I don't try to come off as a marketing genius like some people but that's like saying BMW can only price a 3 series up to mid $50s for a short time because it costs too much. Silly.
 
Just because something is priced a few thousand less does not make it any less of luxury car. If the car itself deserves to be in luxury class because of it's trimmings, equipment, quality and dealer experience...then it is.

#14928 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [robbieg] by graphicguy

Sep 19, 2012 (3:04 pm)

Replying to: robbieg (Sep 19, 2012 8:12 am)
robbie....I agree with your assessments. I don't know that Cadillac can shake its "value luxury" image, no matter what they do.
 
FN....I see what you're saying. But, I think it stems from the fact that both Infiniti and Acura were, at least at their inception, marketed as BMW/Mercedes/Audi competitors. Whether it was ever true, I really don't know. I know the Legend was, at one time, King of the sport/lux hill. Lexus always chose the roll of a "better" Buick/Cadillac. The Infiniti M has tried, mostly in vain, to compete with the E Series, 5 series, A6. It never really crossed that barrier. The G got close to the BMW3, but never quite got there. Now, Infiniti seems to have fallen even farther behind.
 
But, I can't tell if this is a temporary thing for Infiniti (or for Acura, for that matter). We'll see. As both the RL/TL(X) and the G are due for major redos. Hard to tell where they'll fall with those vehicles.

#14929 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [graphicguy] by sweendogy

Sep 19, 2012 (4:02 pm)

Replying to: graphicguy (Sep 19, 2012 3:04 pm)
Lots of generalizations - no real facts in the statements above. Look at the us sales numbers and tell me how much they have fallen (except Acura)
 
Try again

#14930 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [sweendogy] by flightnurse

Sep 20, 2012 (9:29 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Sep 19, 2012 8:33 am)
Sweeny if you think Infiniti is happy with second place think twice... Infiniti has ALWAYS been in second place, with the competition getting better and better, and for less money or the same as Infiniti why would anyone want to get a car that is always in second place?

#14931 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [sweendogy] by flightnurse

Sep 20, 2012 (9:36 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Sep 19, 2012 4:02 pm)
Sweeny, over on the Infiniti board here on Edmond's, the price/lease payments for the G37's are crazy low, 18 month lease with $1800 out of pocket and payments of $280/m+ tax that is a steal, so if infiniti is "selling" a lof of them it is because of these insanely low prices, their money factor must be next to none thing. This indicator only shows that people are looking for a great deal and are happy with the Infiniti, I wonder if BMW did the same thing, how many cars they would move...

#14932 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [flightnurse] by sweendogy

Sep 21, 2012 (5:54 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Sep 20, 2012 9:29 pm)
Never said they were "happy" - but I do know that the infinti brand for Nissan is a pimple on the azz of cars they sell- bread and butter car is the Altima. Tey have done a godoy job being a second place option to the mighty 3. They sell a boatload of second place cars- so for you to say they are always in second- might be the case - but again where is the slippage ?
 
Why would anyone buy a second place car? Well it's a better value and has proven itself over the past 10 years-

#14933 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [flightnurse] by sweendogy

Sep 21, 2012 (6:02 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Sep 20, 2012 9:36 pm)
On cheap leasing- Infiniti is just a carbon copy of what BMW has done for years- don't have the exact number but it's well over 50% of 3s are leased. They also have good residual value (and let's not forget the maintence scam) . So BMW has been doing the same thing for years guess you hadn't noticed the amound of $45k cars rolling on the LIE during the mini recession of 07-2010.

#14934 of 16087 Second Place Misconception? by habitat1

Sep 21, 2012 (6:14 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Sep 21, 2012 5:54 am)
I don't think anybody knowingly buys a car that is in "second place" for what their priorities are.
 
I would agree that if you compare certain driving dynamics of the G37 vs. the 335i you will conclude that BMW has the edge. But do the same thing for a FWD or even AWD automatic TL, and you come to the same conclusion just as quickly. Price point, features, maintenance costs, etc. all come into play and - hopefully - one has the good sense to buy what they believe is the right combination for them.
 
The problem would be if Infiniti priced the G37 exactly the same as a 335i, offered exactly the same features and options, marketed the car as a direct competitor to the 335i, but fell short on driving dynamics. I don't think that's the case here.
 
Personally, I think the 335i would fall into second place if I was buying a sedan today. At a price that is at or above $55k for a well optioned, performance model, it is way too close to the $65k+/- that I could buy an naturally aspirated 8,400 rpm M3 at. No comparison on driving dynamics, period. But that's my value judgement and someone else's is likely to be different.

#14935 of 16087 Re: Second Place Misconception? [habitat1] by wireless

Sep 21, 2012 (7:58 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Sep 21, 2012 6:14 am)
335i - already 3rd place behind MB and Audi IME. Mebbe 4th behind Infiniti if price is considered. In front of Lexus though.

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