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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16087 messages,  Last post on May 09, 2013 at 9:32 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1488 of 1610

#14865 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [nyccarguy] by habitat1

Sep 13, 2012 (4:12 am)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Sep 12, 2012 7:04 pm)
NYC,
 
Haven't checked KBB or other sources, but $19k for a 2010 TSX with 49,000 miles doesn't seem terrible, given that Acura is discounting the heck out of their new cars now. I just got another e-mail from Pohanka Acura indicating they would give me $9,300 of a brand new 2012 TL SH-AWD (manual or auto), which works out to around $36k. I have to believe that Acura's aggressive pricing on new cars would affect resale values of 2-3 year old, higher mileage ones. A used TSX Tech for $20k such as yours looks pretty good when a new TL AWD TEch is listed at $44k. Not so much when the TL can actually be bought for $36-37k. Not sure what the situation was in March.
 
But I still think Acuras and BMWs hold their value much better than Cadillacs in our area. I fully concur with you that you should buy a car for YOURSELF and not the next guy, but for others that were comparing vehicles and looking at a $2-4k difference in price up front (only 5-10%), considering resale may help justify (or not) the initial price difference.
 
And or those that don't care about resale because they might keep the car for 6-8 years, I think its also worth checking out older versions of what they are considering and see how they hold up. Just yesterday, a friend of mine picked me up in his 2002 Mercedes C320 with 190,000 miles. It looks and drives like its just nicely broken in. He mentioned that his wife's Escalade, after 4 years and 50,000 miles shows much more age with rattles, uneven leather wear, chrome pitting on the grill, etc. They bought the Escalade in 2008 as a result of getting what looked like a great deal compared to a Mercedes. Now, they are likely to give all of the savings back on a miserable trade in for a new GL.

#14866 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [nyccarguy] by robr2

Sep 13, 2012 (5:44 am)

Replying to: nyccarguy (Sep 12, 2012 1:43 pm)
While I'm sure that ATS looked nice, at $54K? No thank-you.
 
I agree that $54K is a bit of a stretch for the ATS but you can option out a 3 series to almost $60K. I'm going to say that the ATS will do very well in the $35-40K price range
 
The enthusiast mags are already saying the 3 has some serious competition in terms of driving dynamics. But the badge snobs will still flock to the 3 because of the roundel. Personally I'm not interested in driving what my neighbor's 25 yo live at home kid is leasing. I like to be noticed in something different.

#14867 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [robr2] by flightnurse

Sep 13, 2012 (6:08 am)

Replying to: robr2 (Sep 13, 2012 5:44 am)
Rob, the magazine's always say something like that when they aren't doing a comparison, on their own each might be a great car, but once you get the competition together the faults of each car are easy to see. I hope the ATS does well, competition only makes for a fun time and better products.

#14868 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [habitat1] by flightnurse

Sep 13, 2012 (6:16 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Sep 13, 2012 4:12 am)
Habitat- the Escalate is just a suburban with bling, nothing extra was done to it and of course weren't built very well, can't use that as a comparison to a German built car.
 
The reason why we got the Genesis at the price is the 2013 are rolling in, end of year, all manufactures are doing this, even BMW (with the 5 series). Currently here in Phoenix, BMW is offering $4500 off options (not too sure which option package they are referring to) plus $3K.

#14869 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [robr2] by nyccarguy

Sep 13, 2012 (6:38 am)

Replying to: robr2 (Sep 13, 2012 5:44 am)
And I agree with you that a mid to high $50 something thousand dollar 3 series is absurd as well. Much of the 3's "advantages" may be gone as well due to electric power steering & suspension softening.
 
While it is true that 328xis are EVERYWHERE, especially silver ones like mine, the E90 is still an absolute blast to drive. I welcome the competition as well. The ATS looks nice, the next IS should be more competitive, the next G will probably make all of us BMW nuts think twice before a return trip to our local dealer.
 
When my lease is up in 2 years, I don't think I'll be shopping in this ELLPS category anyway.

#14870 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [flightnurse] by robr2

Sep 13, 2012 (8:41 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Sep 13, 2012 6:08 am)
Rob, the magazine's always say something like that when they aren't doing a comparison, on their own each might be a great car, but once you get the competition together the faults of each car are easy to see. I hope the ATS does well, competition only makes for a fun time and better products.
 
You're right - until the 2 are compared side by side, it's all speculation. But if the worshipers of the temple of BMW say it has a chance...
 
I too look forward to some competition for the 3 series. It's a great car but IMHO getting a little soft.

#14871 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [robr2] by habitat1

Sep 13, 2012 (2:43 pm)

Replying to: robr2 (Sep 13, 2012 8:41 am)
I too look forward to some competition for the 3 series. It's a great car but IMHO getting a little soft.
 
Or....is it just that the 3 series has gotten too big? The current 3 series nearly as big (and heavy) as the 5 series from a few generations ago. And the current 5 is nearly as big as the 7 series was a few generations ago. Want small and nimble, a little one series, that seems tiny by today's standards, is not much smaller than a 1990 vintage 3 series.
 
The 3 series can still be made to be tight, as was proven to me as I rode in the backseat of a 4-door M3 being driven by a BMW instructor at their track last week. But look at the relatively low percentage of 335i's that are equipped with manual transmissions today, let alone sport packages and suspensions. I don't think BMW has gotten soft by their own preference - rather it's more the result of their objective to increase sales and, as such, having to cater to a lower common denominator when it comes to American buyers. Frankly, I wish they'd just tell the softee buyers to pound salt and buy a Lexus. But then again, I'm not a BMW shareholder.

#14872 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [robr2] by flightnurse

Sep 13, 2012 (9:46 pm)

Replying to: robr2 (Sep 13, 2012 8:41 am)
I do hope the ATS is as good as what Cadillac has been saying in their commercials, however, history has proven that they have been short every time... I'm looking forward in driving a ATS and XTS, once national rental car gets them in, next week I'm back in Detroit so I'm hoping they have gotten the XTS.

#14873 of 16087 Re: Saw the newest ELLPS... [flightnurse] by robr2

Sep 14, 2012 (4:24 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Sep 13, 2012 9:46 pm)
I do hope the ATS is as good as what Cadillac has been saying in their commercials, however, history has proven that they have been short every time...
 
I'm more interested in what the reviewers say as they get the most seat time in every car.
 
As for what Cadillac says in the ads....I've never seen any advertiser say "Hey our product is mediocre."

#14874 of 16087 Re: It finally happened [flightnurse] by billyperksii

Sep 14, 2012 (6:24 am)

Replying to: flightnurse (Sep 12, 2012 9:45 pm)
yeah right

Messages Page 1488 of 1610

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