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Entry Level Luxury Performance Sedans

16251 messages,  Last post on Jun 18, 2013 at 7:02 AM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Infiniti G37, Acura TL, Lexus IS 350, Mercedes-Benz C-Class, Cadillac CTS, Volvo S60, Audi A4, Acura TSX, Car Comparisons, Sedan

Messages Page 1481 of 1626

#14792 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [sweendogy] by habitat1

Aug 22, 2012 (4:39 am)

Replying to: sweendogy (Aug 21, 2012 6:09 pm)
Thanks for posting that data source - it is a great one to look through.
 
However, not sure how you concluded that the TL's minor facelift has made much of a difference in sales? The YTD numbers are up slightly (12% +/-) through July 2012 vs. 2011, but they are also now giving away the car with up to $9,000 discounts. And the slight YTD bump is still nowhere near the sales volume of the worst/last year of the previous model.
 
Here's the grim statistical truth about the Acura TL:
 
2004-2006 Total US Sales: 227,461 (this is FWD only car, 1st 3 years after 2004 redesign. Average annual = 75,820. Up 37% from previous model, which still averaged 58k units last two years of it's "aged" design")
 
2009-2011 Total US Sales: 98,906 (this in spite of now offering both FWD, AWD models with 2 different engines. Average annual 32,969; down 57% from previous model and down over 25,000 average sales from last two years of 2002-2003 model)
 
You can't look at this in any way, shape or form (literally) and not call the 2009 Acura redesign a total screw up from a business perspective. Acura pumped tons of money into producing two drivetrains, two engine variants of the TL and sales ended up getting cut by well more than half thanks to going to Pontiac for aesthetic advice and to raid their chrome stockpile.
 
Even Porsche, for all of their focus on engineering prowess, realizes that looks do matter and has continued to refine the classic 911 style. But Acura was too smart for their own good, threw the 2004-2008 exterior in the trash and look what it got them.

#14793 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [habitat1] by sweendogy

Aug 22, 2012 (5:13 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 22, 2012 4:39 am)
"discounts of up to 9K", wow how pissed are owners of 2011s?

#14794 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [habitat1] by stickguy

Aug 22, 2012 (5:46 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 22, 2012 4:39 am)
you do have to keep in mind the market was vastly different in 2009-2011, with the recession having a major impact. Plus of course, strong new competition in the segment.
 
but, even my wife/daughter (who know zippo about cars) when we passed a current gen beak TL said "wow that is ugly".
 
the 2004? my favorite. I almost bought a 2001 new (great deal, but I was too tall to fit comfortably, though I ended up with a 2000 for my son a few years back, so I have one in the family), and looked at the 2004 when it came out. IMO< a huge improvement. Better interior, more room, and also way better looking.

#14795 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [stickguy] by graphicguy

Aug 22, 2012 (6:58 am)

Replying to: stickguy (Aug 22, 2012 5:46 am)
stick.....I do think that the 4G TL's current styling is polarizing. That said, I remember when my dealer had a private showing for it when they first hit the street. I remember thinking how forward the styling was, which was something I liked. Clearly, I was in the minority because I liked it.
 
The driving dynamics were quite a bit ahead of the 3G version, too. Tech was better, materials were better....just about everything was better with the 4G.
 
Now, the polarizing styling has been "smoothed", other brands/models have caught up (and exceeded) TL's tech. From a price/performance aspect (with some pretty hefty Acura discounts), the TL (in SH AWD form) is still a compelling buy.
 
It will be interesting to see if Acura makes the new RL(X)/TL(X) one model and drops the other. To me, the RL was never a real player in the lux field (E350, ES350, A6).
 
I believe Acura could mine some gold with a "tweener", splitting the performance and lux difference between the TL and RL, having it priced accordingly (mid $40K).
 
We'll see. Have heard of some nice specs on the new RL/TL car they've been parading around the car shows.
 
Be interesting to see if Acura rolls out a TL-S next year. That always boosts sales.

#14796 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [habitat1] by flightnurse

Aug 22, 2012 (7:30 am)

Replying to: habitat1 (Aug 22, 2012 4:39 am)
Something else to consider, is Acura more aggressive in it's financing of the TL then ever before? I would have to say, yes. Before Acura (or Honda) really never would deal on their cars, but things have changed. So if someone is shopping purely on price, this could motivate people to buy a TL over say G even though the exterior isn't as nice at the G.

#14797 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [graphicguy] by stickguy

Aug 22, 2012 (7:33 am)

Replying to: graphicguy (Aug 22, 2012 6:58 am)
funny thing is, not long ago there was a newer TL parked on my street, and I thought it looked really sharp. It was a real dark blue, and looked great in that color. But in almost every other color (especially light ones) I did not like it at all.

#14798 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [sweendogy] by billyperksii

Aug 22, 2012 (12:49 pm)

Replying to: sweendogy (Aug 22, 2012 5:13 am)
I see over on the G37 Board now you can lease one for $199, how infruiating it must be for the guys who are laying out $500+.

#14799 of 16251 And another thing about Acura.... by habitat1

Aug 22, 2012 (2:26 pm)

...why is there SH-AWD system such a gas hog??
 
Compare the MDX (16/21 EPA) to a X5 3.5, ML 350 (both higher), or even a 400hp Cayenne S V8. No, wait, compare it to a 500 hp Cayenne Turbo (roughly the same at 15/22). Where is all that gas going??
 
The TL SH-AWD (18/26) is below the E350 4-matic, 535xi (both 19/29), Audi A6 (19/28) and way, way below the 335ix (33 highway).
 
Perhaps SH should be changed to SG for "sucks gas".
 
I am probably connecting too many dots here, but when we test drove the new MDX against the competition, I felt like Acura put all of their time and attention into "gizmos" and not into decent, responsive automatic transmissions, engines and drivetrains for the current MDX. The fact that everyone else seems to offer both better fuel efficiency and actual performance (the 300 horses in the X5 3.5i are WAY bigger horses than the ones in the MDX) seems to reinforce my feelings.
 
As for why the TL SH-AWD gets 20% lower fuel efficiency than a faster, more powerful 335xi is a bit of a conundrum.

#14800 of 16251 Re: I don't know.... [billyperksii] by sweendogy

Aug 22, 2012 (4:59 pm)

Replying to: billyperksii (Aug 22, 2012 12:49 pm)
Don't know- I don't lease. Scrolling the g37 board, nice- You looking to trade up/ price down?
 
Wow 199 a great price - but wonder how much you need to put down? Maybe flight can land here with an answer.

#14801 of 16251 $199??? by rayainsw

Aug 22, 2012 (3:38 pm)

I see nothing close to that - and the 'deals' look to be
low 3s to high 2s...?
[ And those are with $$s 'down' ]
Where did you see a G37 lease at $199/mo?
- Ray
Academic, today, but very interesting....

Messages Page 1481 of 1626

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